Religion Vs. Relationships

[Guest Soulsearcher]

I'm curious about people's thoughts on this topic. I get into debates quite often with people about these two things and how many believe they conflict. In fact my mother and I just got into a HUGE argument about this, this very evening. >.<

I consider myself a Christian, but I don't believe in forcing my views on others. I live my life the best I can according to my values and I REFUSE to judge people according to how they choose to live theirs.

However, I know many who are not like this. I really feel relationships, no matter who they're with, can be wonderful or aweful. Doesn't matter if it's a man/man, woman/woman, or man/woman or any combination therein. It's the people in the relationship that matter. I'm not going to spend my time making an effort to try to "convert" people into going against what they believe is natural and makes them happy.

I, for one, really enjoy yaoi ... with cute love plotlines of course. hee. My husband loves yuri. And yet we are both Christians.

I have far bigger concerns, such as ... oh ... WAR comes to mind. Hunger, violence. MUCH bigger concerns for me.

Besides, my two friends Kevin and Will are SOOOOO cute! Last time I spent the night, Will comes into my room in the morning and says,

"Honey, I put some fresh mango body wash in the shower for you and the towel is on the counter. I'm making eggs and toast with bacon, how do you like your eggs?"

All I could think was ... I need to live here ... like ... a LOT.

^^_v

People tell me I can't really be a true Christian if I am accepting of people who "live in sin", yet I feel it's those who aren't accepting that aren't the "true" Christians. After all, Christ taught acceptance and love. How can you call yourself a Christian if you are not following what Christ himself teaches and speaks of?

I'd love to see what other people's experiences/opinions are on this very back and forth topic..

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

While I don't consider myself a Christian (I don't really even think I believe in God, to be truthful), I do love the teachings of Christ and think a lot of people pervert them.

The philosophy I hold in high respect and believe a lot of "Christians" tend to "forget" is tolerance and acceptance. I have a lot of friends who don't believe the same things as I, yet this rarely comes up in conversation. My boyfriend, the love of my rather short life, has beliefs that conflict with mine on a regular basis. Many of these go beyond the religious. My entire honor code is completly differant than his. As far as religion, he's an athiest while I at least have faith in the fact that their's SOMETHING out there. And yet, we've been together for a year. And while we've had some extremly strenuos fights over serious issues, we love each other enough to work things out. A lot of times agreeing to disagree. I understand where his views come from, and he understands mine. We don't need to share beliefes to live together. Hell, if my range was that narrow, I'd live a life of extreme lonliness.

I truly believe that if everyone could do what me and my love do on a regular basis the world would be much happier. I think everyone needs to except the idea that no one is perfect, they are not omnipotent, and that there is a possibilty that THEY ARE WRONG. Truly, who knows, maybe Islam or Judaism has got it right, or maybe it's Christianity. Or perhaps, horrors of horrors, we're all wrong! Or, we're all right. Who knows. The possibilities are endless. Why waist precious time fighting when you can spend it lovin'? Why start a whole war over something that you could find out in the end was wrong?

Good, bad, right, wrong; these are all relative and subject to matters of opinion, and everyone has an opinion.

[Guest arora]

I have always equated religion to hope.

Hope that we are not alone and that maybe there is someone out there that loves us unconditionally. Hope that when we die, we go to someplace where we may meet up with all the others that have gone before us and live in peace and harmony.

it is that hope that is precious and what make us as humans fight over it.

we guard our valuables, our precious things, we want to believe they are the best out there. We want to hold them up and believe in them unconditionally, getting so carried away that it blinds us to other peoples views on what gives them hope.

How many times have you seen two small kids playing in a sandbox, each one has a shovel and are having a grand time. One kid has a blue shovel the other, red. The one with the red shovel takes the others shovel and stomps on it.

Why? because its different than his.

Same purpose, just different enough to make it so that he had to make his look better, so he broke the others.

the sand box analogy is from a psychology book and I agree with it.

Everyone cherishes what gives them hope, and they can't stand it when someone else comes in with something different. Same purpose, just different.

[StoryJunkie]

Hope that we are not alone and that maybe there is someone out there that loves us unconditionally. Hope that when we die, we go to someplace where we may meet up with all the others that have gone before us and live in peace and harmony

I love you arora, may your ship remain unsinkable!

Religious veiws can be the most powerful ones in human relationships. Even two people who belong to the same religion will have different views and disagree, so if you agree, then it is good. If you disagree, do all that you can to safe-guard the relationship and do not let your ego interfere with it, no matter what you think is right. It's just not worth it.

My husband joined a cult soon after our 2nd daughter was born and I just prayed, that's all. You wouldn't believe how quickly things fell apart and it turned out that the head guy there was having his way with every woman on the farm. What a shock to everyone but me. I didn't say anything for a long time, but any mention he made after that about it really hurt, and I would get angry for no reason. Some of our worst arguements were about religion, and finally I thought, to heck with this, I'm going to write. So I did.

Its more important to me to have peace in the relationship than to impose my views on him. He knows how I feel anyway, after all these years, so sometimes all it takes is a look.

[Guest Melody Fate]

People tell me I can't really be a true Christian if I am accepting of people who "live in sin", yet I feel it's those who aren't accepting that aren't the "true" Christians.  After all, Christ taught acceptance and love.  How can you call yourself a Christian if you are not following what Christ himself teaches and speaks of?

Considering that Jesus hung around with those who society had forgotten or outright rejected, the intollerance that Christianity has grown to represent boggles my mind.

Jesus was suspitious of those in charge. He told people not to pray like the priests, loudly and in public.

I can't see if Jesus came back today, that he would be too happy with what's being and been done in his name. Considering who Jesus hung out with in his days, if he came today, I think we'd find him with the very people the supposed Christian Majority are fighting to stamp out.

I don't think Jesus is against homosexuality. I do think he's against using his name as an excuse to torment them. I don't think Jesus supports the idea of protesting abortion by killing doctors and those who disagree. I do think he's disgusted that in places like the United States, where we pay farmers not to grow certain crops, we still have hungry children and children that don't have sufficiant medical care.

In the park near my house, every single Sunday, the Christ-sellers go roaving through, pushing literature on people and trying to convert the sinners. These same people also run around hiding literature everywhere they can, mostly in bathrooms, but I've found their pamphlets stuffed into menus, books at the bookstore (In particular, the religious section, books that have the balls not to be the Bible. And D&D books too.) I always want to tell them to stop cheapening Christianity. The message is wonderful, why do they need to "sell" it? Selling is the art of convincing people to buy something they probably don't need. Why is peace of mind and heaven something that people have to be convinced they need?

The need to "sell Jesus," is gone. I don't think there is anyone on the globe that hasn't heard of Jesus and Christianity. The "Spread the gospel" message was necessary when Christianity was the"new religion on the block" just as "Be fruitful and multiply" was a great message when there were only a few thousand people on the planet, not a few billion. I think it cheapens everything Christ stood for to slam him down people's throats like he's a used car with bald tires and an exploding gas tank. Jesus knew that not everyone who heard his word would accept it. He even warned us that would happen.

StoryJunkie, if my opinion counts for anything, you're doing a much better job of being like Christ than the people who tell you that you need to stop being so accepting of others. You're showing God's love and acceptance by being accepting. And I think Jesus is going to be a lot happier with you than he will be with Bush and those like him.

[Guest Soulsearcher]

Weeeeeeeee! It's so REFRESHING to read your responses! I live in a mostly republican area of a blue state, and it's so hard to watch and listen to people's ignorant opinions. And it's not just where I live that I see it. On T.V., the internet, the radio ... I'm actually embarassed sometimes that I am a Christian, not because of me, but because of what "Christians" are saying and doing. I'm sorry, I don't and CAN'T believe "faith based initiantives" are a good thing. I think if you want to have an initiative, have it be one based purely on morals. Don't give it the label of "faith". It frustrates me a lot.

Many people respond with, "Well, aren't morals faith based?" Sure they are! They're based on principles which were established before Christianity even existed. Please, feel free to call them pagan based initiatives.

My father is actually an atheist and he and I have some WONDERFUL discussions on the insanity going on among Christians today. He's told me numerous times that the behavior of Christians currently merely reinforces his choice. He doesn't want to be part of a group that is so exclusive.

It's sad really. Christianity is supposed to be all-inclusive. But it's become a political arm for forcing opinions and beliefs on people. My husband says eventually there will be a backlash against Christians. I wouldn't be one bit surprised either.

It's unfortunate how often the loudest members of a group, the members trying to represent that group ... they rarely actually truly represent that group. More often than not, then end up representing themselves and the power they want to have.

[Guest Agaib]

I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that agrees with pretty much all of My beliefs. I don’t like to associate Myself with one specific group and say "I'm like they are." Because I feel that if I put myself in a position that will never allow Me to change my mind, then I'm being dumb. I always want to be able to change My mind in case someone proves me wrong.

Everyone is always wrong about something. No one is right about every thing. "Always" and "No one" are two phrases I never use lightly along with "every time" and "forever" because when one uses those phrases, one is almost sure to be wrong. But I think in the case above, I'll make an exception.

One example of Me changing My mind comes from StoryJunkie. Previously on the forum StoryJunkie has made some comments and supported causes I really don’t. She's religious and a fairly conservative Christian (compared to me), but she's also made Me realize that not all religious people are insane psychopaths. Though I am still acutely aware of the fact that some conservatives make Me want to beat Myself on the head.

In the end I believe that if there is a big cosmic force out there, We're probably not smart enough to ever come close to understanding it. I think that the quest to learn everything about what is "right" and whether or not there is a god is unimportant to Me. All I care about are the things I know are real.

I know there are people starving in the world every day, and I care about that. I know people start wars for dumb reasons, and I care about that. I know that I love My family and My girlfriend, so I care about them, and there are a lot of other things I care about too.

If there really is a god out there, and he'll send Me to hell for just focusing on the people I love and the people suffering in the world and trying to fix problems (While effectively ignoring him), then I wouldn't want to hang out with him in heaven anyway.

BTW: Is it blasphemous to refer to the Christian god as “her”?

[Guest Rockin]

even though I'm not religious of any kind, I do know that any type of religon can be touchy, especially Jewish and Christans. People have their rules about them about 'How to be a true (insert religon here)' and such. It's hard to make the non believers agree with you, because they feel -they're- right about what say say. Not to mention that (I believe) that religons can be strict about who you should be with.

[Guest Soulsearcher]

Agaib, I personally don't consider it blasphemous and it isn't according to anything I've read in the bible. I've even known pastors who refer to God in the feminine. However, there are those out there in the Christian community that would indeed consider it blasphemous.

Suppose it depends on who you talk to, but I've never heard of any biblical law that declares it to be blasphemous ... my husband could probably answer this one better than I could though ...

[WotanAnubis]

Well, my largely uninformed opinion of Christ goes something like this:

Christ was a rather easy-going guy who liked hanging out with those who were looked down upon by society.

So, people who now go those who are largely looked down upon by society and yell at them that they're going to Hell are not really acting in the spirit of Christ.

So, basically, if you're being a dick to people because they don't think just like you, you're not acting in the spirit of Christ.

So that also means Christ is probably very upset with me at the moment.

Oh, and if you use your religion to make money, I think Christ would go over to your house and smash it up if he were still alive today. Because Christ doesn't like the abuse of religion for material gains.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I personally think it's funny that most of the bible thumping fundies are extremly conservative and will likely do whatever their authority figure tells them and call anyone who is NOT "the NORM" is blasphemous and what-not. Jesus is like the greatest example of "sticking it to the MAN!" He's right up there with all the female Pharohs of Egypt and Ghandi.

Cause nothing says SHOVE IT like becoming a political/religious leader ^___^

[StoryJunkie]

*shudders* (bible thumpers)

Ever been to Yahoo Answers in the religious section? That is scary

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

No, but i used to go onto a pagan chatroom on AOL and we'd be chatting then some lune trying to "save our souls" would come and describe hell to us (cause, you know, describing hell to a bunch of people who adamently believe that there is no such place will TOTally scare them into converting.)

[StoryJunkie]

My personal experience? God is like a drug that I don't want to share. Everytime I try to explain it, it sounds ridiculous. So, although I try my best, I know there's always someone who will take it the wrong way, kind of like a bad trip.

Unfortunately, I was one of those stupid naive people that thought God actually spoke to me. (No, I didn't hear any voices or anything like that. I just listened really hard. You can hear the Earth speak, too, and, eventually, the song of the cosmos.) I've met only one other person in this whole wide world who also hears these things. She had a near death experience.

But to tell the truth, always, a garden cannot sprout in the desert. First there is a plan for the garden, then the trees are considered, then the vegetables, then the flowers, and finally, of all things, we must be thrown to the ground and given stinky manure, and beaten by the hot rays of the sun and flooded with rain.

Only then can we grow. Life is an analogy. That's the closest I can say. To anyone who can hear, so hear it. To anyone who needs it not, then so be it.

[polywolly]

My personal experience?  God is like a drug that I don't want to share.  Everytime I try to explain it, it sounds ridiculous.  So, although I try my best, I know there's always someone who will take it the wrong way, kind of like a bad trip.

That is a wonderful, and in my opinion, very accurate way to put it.

My opinion on religion tends to be convoluted. Read StoryJunkie's so apt description above.

However, I'll give it a shot.

My maternal grandfather is Baptist Preacher, who has never once preached to me in all our many conversations throughout my life. My paternal grandparents forced my father to attend church every Sunday, no matter how crazy his mother was acting that day. If either of the above reasons attributed to the lack of religion in my childhood home, I am unaware.

God was not a topic of conversation in our house. Over the course of several years when I became curious, I read the bible, the Koran, the Gnostic texts, formed some opinions... Right around the time I received my driver's license, my older brother--my only sibling--and I would discuss the subject from time to time. Much to our surprise, we found that we had formed some of the very same beliefs about God, the universe, the afterlife, and other such things. Later, upon a similar conversation with our Mom, we found out that she believes many of the same things as well.

I believe this fact lends credence to the belief that we are all born with a sense of God, the energy given us by the Earth, whatever the higher/omnipotent/all-powerful being is called by whichever religion worships it.

I was also raised to accept others as they are, whatever their race, creed, social standing, or sexual orientation. I agree with the comedian who said that when all the gay bashers go to heaven, God is going to ask them, "What were you doing to your gay brothers and sisters? Did I teach you nothing about love?"

Perhaps I am alone in this, but that TBN channel on TV scares me. I watch sometimes out of morbid curiosity just to see what kind of closed-minded, bigoted bullshit will come spewing forth this time.

Whenever I talk about religion, I'm reminded of the South Park episode where the announcer in hell says... "Mormon. Mormon was the correct answer."

I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer, but I do know what I say to people who try their damnedest to get me to listen to them thump their latest edition of the King James version. If they tell me I'm going to hell, I tell them I already know. I also add that I've had my bags packed for years. Say it with a smile, the kind that says you know something that they don’t, and they sometimes go away quietly.