Anyone remember that Mary Sue Guide?

[Pokeprof]

It's been a while since I looked at it, and I'm now unable to find it, but it contained a rather interesting and informative article about how to create characters and not have them become mary sues. It used a Harry Potter story as the subject, showed what was considered overpowering to the OC/Mary Sue, and then went through changes to both story and character that wold possibly make it more receptive to the readers.

I'm just curious because my friends and fellow writers on a separate forum have been asking me about this since I've told them about it, and I'm wondering where I can find it again so I can show them.

[MorbidFantasy]

I recall reading said guide a while back, although I can no longer remember it in its entirety.

It's not as difficult as one might imagine to avoid making a Mary Sue. As long as you instill some form of personality into the character and really put emphasis on it you should be fine.

The first thing to do is to choose a general motif (submissive/dominant) then branch off of it (submissive-quiet or begging, dominant- pushy or overpowering) then put more facets on it (etiquette- vulgar or eloquent or mainstream). Whenever a situation comes up that requires participation or dialogue for the character just use your concocted checking list to see if what they're saying is in character or not. The only real way you can create a Mary Sue is if you view the character as a prop to the story and neglect to breath some individuality/life into him/her.

Of course, that's just my two cents. I can't be the judge of whether my characters on AFF are all stereotypical or not, or if they're bland and Mary Sue-like. That's for the reader's to decide, really.

[Saitochan]

Well, I had never heard of such guide myself, but I agree with MorbidFantasy when h e says it shouldn't be so hard to avoid turning your OC into a Mary Sue.

While the personality is quite important, I, for one, believe it's the defects which add more depth to a character. Somebody with defects has to either work to overcome them or work to learn to live with them, and I think those efforts make the character's personality develop with more ease.

But well, that's just me.

[Melrick]

I have no idea where that might be, but I agree with the above comments that it really should be very easy to avoid writing Mary Sue's. It is indeed the defects and flaws which help to keep it away from being a Mary Sue, as well as usually making the story more interesting to read. Perfect characters are only interesting to the person that wrote it.

But on the other hand, as long as those flaws aren't simply the usual teenaged "flaw", such as being moody and surly, antisocial and without friends. My god, that's so boring to read! Try being a little more creative than that. Otherwise, it just takes common sense to avoid blatant Mary Sue's.

[MorbidFantasy]

This is probably going to get me shot, but if you want to read a textbook example of a Mary-Sue, read the Twilight series. Basically, everything Stephanie Meyer writes you want to avoid like the bloody PLAGUE.

On an ever so slightly more serious note, I remember reading that and I can't think for the life of me WHERE it went. It actually wasn't bad explanation.

Quoted for truth.

[knight]

Found these two threads buried a few pages back. Not sure it

this is what your looking for. Has some good information about

your question.

http://www2.adult-fanfiction.org/forum/inde...?showtopic=6331

http://www2.adult-fanfiction.org/forum/inde...?showtopic=3687

[Guest StSE]

The other thing to look at is how the canons/other characters think/act towards the OC of your creation.

Say she/he is drop dead gorgeous, dominant, and fairly good at whatever she/he does. Ok, at FIRST this sounds like the definition of a MS right? Wrong! Make the OC overconfident/arrogant/or just a total bitch/asshole. Have all the canons hate/despise/look down on him/her. Make the canons 'win' whatever battle it is (wills/awards/battles/etc). And perhaps towards the end have said OC realize that they WEREN'T perfect! But it helps if no one ever truly falls for them...... Or maybe they never realize they weren't perfect? Now that's a twist... And usually with these seemingly 'perfect' OCs, I don't really let any canons truly fall for them in the end..

The main thing I've always read on MS, is that the canons fall immediately, helplessly in love/lust with them. And they're usually females. Bit of a double standard there, but for some reason readers are more forgiving/ignoring of a Gary Sue than a Mary Sue.

[Guest lucretziathevagabond]

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but I found this and thought it was helpful:

The Mary Sue Litmus Test

The article also mentions Dr Merlins Guide to writing fanfiction, which I read frequently.

Hopr this helps,

Jo (lucretziathevagabond)

[Pokeprof]

Mmmm, I talked to a friend who remembered seeing the guide I'm talking about and he supplied something that I had forgotten. In the guide, they showed the Harry Potter Example using a Vampire story, showing all the thins wrong with it and the showing ways that those same things could be turned into a good story, even with the OC. That strike any more memories?

Also, I think this was before the whole changing of who was leading AFF.net at the time, so it could have been something the previous guys could have done.

[Harley Quinn hyenaholic]

Mary Sue tests are more about "Is this character you?" or "Is this wish fulfilment?"

[Kimmy_Nagasaki]

I went through my old posts, and I thought this might help, though im not sure it's it.

http://www2.adult-fanfiction.org/forum/inde...mp;#entry191368