NightScribe

TV series don't usually live up to the films, especially when they're so engrained in the pop culture psyche. Now, if there were "director's cut" DVDs of the films, with all that stuff in them, I'd be on board. There have been a lot of great films that, unfortunately, had to make cuts from the source material. "Gone With the Wind" and "To Kill a Mockingbird," just to name two. We'll just have to suffer, or use our imaginations. I worship only at the altar of Snape.

I stumbled on a new fic that's got me wondering. Yes, it was poorly written (I must live up to my title-damn bloodhound genes!). I left a review, pointing out the usual, (spelling, grammar, and please, for the love of God, use a beta next time, etc.). <insert Homer Simpson shudder here> Here's what's got me wondering. They put in a disclaimer, saying that anyone under 16 should not read. Umm...16? I pointed out that AFF is for the OVER 18 crowd. So, stupid kid or an adult who's just plain stupid? BTW it did read like something an under 16 yr old might write. And another thing; is it just me, but if you're writing a rape scene (of a 16 yr old, no less) do the words "penis" and "vagina" not really work? And having the victim fall in love and marry the rapist? Didn't "General Hospital" already do that, like, I don't know, 25 years ago or something?

So, a couple of months ago, I started reading a fic that showed promise, but by the 5th chapter, I lost interest. The writing was fine, but was more of a "I hate you/like you, slap and tickle" kind of thing, and pretty romancy WAFF-ish (not coded as such, as I recall). A shame really, the first chapter showed possibilities of some real interesting conflict. Anyway, I see the fic when I'm in that archive and bless 'em they keep posting. And the reviews! They've got tons. So I clicked on them. Of about 50, I'd say 12 are from different people and the remainder are all from the same person (a real user who's written in the same fandom). Here's where it gets weird. This fan doesn't really review. They'll put in quotes from the story, or write what I'm guessing is what they'd do if they were one of the characters, they leave links to websites and really don't critique much, they use the review section to chat. It's a little strange. And kind of annoying, at times I feel sorry for the author, like their story is being hi-jacked by this reviewer. I think it's great if someone really digs your story that much, but I have to wonder if they're really lonely and just feel a connection with this author, which is kind of sad. But at times, it almost comes across like stalking. I also feel badly for other potential readers who might want to read the fic, but read the reviews first and get turned off by what they see. Ever have something like that happen to you? Or seen something similar? I'm not talking about someone who leaves several articulate critiques, but decides to use the review area to chat. I mean, isn't that what e-mail is for? Any thoughts?

Pixagi, That Chgo heatwave, I thought they tried to say some 700 deaths occured because of the heat. Something I always kind of questioned, in fact I think they lowered the number eventually....I remember the 88 & 89 drought/heatwave. That was far worse than the heatwave a few years back. I remember going to a Robert Palmer concert in August at the old Poplar Creek. It was a lovely 98 degrees at 8:00 pm Yech!

StoryJunkie, When I said "everybody's got their take on things," I was mainly referring to my own fics and how people might interpret OCs, I didn't mean it as a kind of general blanket statement; sorry if that was a bit confusing. I think it's safe to say that that troublesome "Mary Sue" is going to have people debating this issue for a long, long time. That annoying little bitch.

We had our hot spell about a week or ten days ago. I was broiling. My a/c hasn't worked in like, eight years or something, and it's so damn hard to get hold of the landlord. Yeah, there's nothing like sitting naked in front of the old lap top, with a fan blowing on you, while you're writing smut...pardon me, "adult themed fictions."

It's a safe bet you've never read any of my HP fics, according to your first reason. And others may very well feel the same, which could explain the very small following for my stories; but in the limited feedback I've gotten for those fics, no mention was ever made of MS. Everybody's got their own take on things. I understand the "purist" idea, which I think you mentioned previously. I have my own bizarre convictions along those lines with PotO stories. Many of those fics are a strange amalgam of the novel, the play, the film and a prequel novel that many Phantom fans take as gospel. It makes for extremely confusing stories to find a mixture of traits that make the canon character unrecognizeable at times. Most of the stories are based on the musical, or film, so Erik (the Phantom) has a chance with Christine. But, as I said, in this regard, I am a purist. In the Leroux novel, Erik dies, end of story, no hope. A lot of those fans absolutely loathe the idea of OCs, but to my mind, either E/C have to hook up during the events of Leroux's story, or it has to be an OC set before the actual novel. I wrote the latter and one person did say "I usually don't like Mary Sues." An MS wasn't my intention; trying to write a story within my little canon confines made that story tricky. In the end, everything is subjective.

Although the term "Mary Sue" may have appeared in regards to fanfiction, it is totally possible for original fiction to contain them. There have been a few examples in this thread already and I won't rehash. I agree with Melody when she says that it depends on how well written the story is. I've read some awful fics with OC's that were obvious Mary Sues and made me cringe, but other stories with OC's were fairly entertaining, I didn't get the "vibe" that the story was a self-insertion. And not all SI's are bad. I read a great Gary Stu that was told in first person and I enjoyed the hell out of it. The author was that good and it wasn't a fluke; his other fics were great as well. When I was writing an original story, long ago, I had a character that, as Sere said, was "flat and annoying." I didn't care about him and if I didn't, readers wouldn't. What was the problem? He was too perfect, almost cavalier, which would be impossible in real life given the traumatic events I had happen to him. He was one dimensional. So after re-thinking his character, giving him believable flaws and reactions, he came to life and became my favorite character, which I thought would never happen. I had even begun to post that story on the site, but original stories have a difficult time finding readers, I'm afraid, and I pulled it. I admit, I may play fast and loose with the concept of OC's in fanfics; mine are loaded with them, it's my way of cheating, I suppose. Being inspired by an existing story and taking canon characters and depositing them in situations of my making(but not AU). This rather unusual method may explain the lack of feedback for my fics; I may be messing with readers' heads too much, unintentionally of course. But I gotta be me. I was getting off the subject, but I think that, again, Sere made a great point with her list and Melody was right there with her, articulate in her argument, as usual. Not all OC's are Mary Sues.

Big Sam- No problem, Lolita's got to be one of my favorite novels of all time. I dig trying to put people on to the classics. Pixagi- You're not spazzing. Let's shed a little light on what's going on in this world, shall we? The Patriot Act (Feds want library records & bookstore credit card purchases. "What, exactly, is Jane/John Smith reading?" None of your goddamn business!) The domestic spying scandal. (Turn over those phone and internet records) Warrantless searches (WTF?) Access to bank records (I say again, WTF?) Automatic toll devices that know exactly where you were and when and in what car. You've got a GPS chip in your cell phone. And don't forget "Nipplegate" during the Super Bowl. Tivo had a record of how many people re-played that (oh, we just keep those records for uhmm...hey did you see that nipple shield?) We have surveillance cameras on city streets, intersections and just about every freaking place you can possibly imagine (grocery stores inside & out, laundromats, you name it). You can't pull your underwear out of your ass crack, scratch your nuts or adjust your boobs without somebody seeing it. When you finish 1984 and want to spazz out a little more, try Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here." Published in 1935 about how facists could come to run the government of the U.S.

The year....1955. The author.....Vladimir Nabokov. The novel...."Lolita." Plot... a middle aged man who molests a girl starting when she's ten years old. I'm talking about a published author who got paid for his work. This book is considered a classic of literature. You can buy it at any bookstore. My copy classifies the novel as "fiction/literature." It is a story that makes you think, is beautifully written and oh, yeah, one more thing, it never once graphically describes what he does to her, but you get the idea. The book's been "banned" I don't know how many times, but it's still out there and I heard about it from my mom. The book was made into two films; one in the sixties (which kind of sucked) and one in the nineties with Jeremy Irons (who also did the unabridged audio book). The latter version could not find a distributor, so Showtime ran it. It's also available on DVD. Wait...someone's knocking on my door...crap! It's the Fiction/Thought Police, come to take my books, fics, DVDs and cable box! Read the content warnings, and if what you're reading eventually turns you off, stop. I've done it and that includes fics with consenting adults. If it doesn't float your boat, bail. There's plenty of sites with PG-13 and under stories only if that's what you prefer.

What's a review? (Just kidding) Seriously, here is the extent of my HP story reviews: after first chapter or two posted, one review along the lines of "sounds interesting". After story is complete, one or two reviews that say something like "thanks for sharing." Well, you're welcome....I guess. Thanks for explaining why this story has a great rating, or none at all. (I love that inconsistency). I'm obviously writing for myself at this point, as no one gives a rat's ass enough about my fics to comment. Who cares? (Yes, I'm bitchy today because my dumb ass co-workers keep screwing with the a/c so it's really muggy and stifling in here, like some friggin' Louisianna swamp ) Anyhoo.... As for the writer's block; my current WIP is still 3 chaps from being complete. I think part of my slow down is that I want/need the last 3 to have some impact as it's wrapping up the story. I don't want to skate through it and have it suck, so I'm really paying attention to the little details to make sure I don't screw something up. Either that, or I'm subconsciously holding the story hostage until my demands are met.

As to who dies in the 7th book, could be anybody and it doesn't bother me a bit. Except for Snape (and I'd like Lupin to stick around). I don't buy that "he's pure evil, he's a villain," thing. The "reprieve" mentioned raises some interesting questions for me, though. I think there's a fair amount of fans, and probably most of them are kids, who read HP and take things quite literally. But as an adult, I'm constantly reading between the lines and interpreting events differently. So, I wonder; Did Ms. Rowling intend (not knowing how huge this would get, not just with kids, but adults) that part of the "shocker" ending would reveal Snape as a "good guy" in book 7, after he dies a martyr's death? Will she stick to the plan and kill him off anyway? Has she had to change that, due to the huge Snape fan base, and grant him a reprieve? Auntie Inkslinger has had to soothe a few Snape loving co-workers who were shocked at HBP. I've re-read Ch 2 of HBP several times and paid very close attention to how Snape's actions, in relation to his words, with Narcissa and Bellatrix are written. They may appear to show one thing, but I believe they are, in fact, hinting at the exact opposite. The book is loaded with incidents like that. I'm in the "Snape is good camp, too", but I'm bracing myself. Entertainment Weekly's got his odds of dying at 2-1.

Ah, yes, 1984. Where if the powers that be don't like you (or you tick them off) you become an "unperson." Frightening thought.

Inkslinger's my forum name, but I publish under NightScribe on AFF. Been there almost a year (and too stupid to realize you could use the same name on the forum. Now my secret identity and idiocy is out). I write mostly HP fics, Snape/OFC (het/lemons). Currently wrapping up the fourth out of a five part epic. May try a SS/HG soon. I had few original stories up, but trashed them, but I'm hoping to try some others in the future. Also have a PotO fic posted. I really can't think of anything else to say, other than I've been on the forum a couple of months now and I like the vibe. I like the laid-back feeling, the silliness of posts at times, but it's also a great place to connect and kick around questions/ideas about the writing we all love to do.

lightgoddess, Didn't Ren & Stimpy find the mountain of lost socks on some planet? Are the culprits responsible in some way related to the South Park Underpants Gnomes????

Sere I've got it on my list of things to do, to read the fics of people who've posted on this thread. After I finish my WIP. 2-1/2 chapters left and what am I doing? Spending all my freakin' time on this forum! You people are like crack to me, I can't get enough. I think I'm kind of like you; if I feel someone is really trying, has a real love of the craft, but is still feeling their way, I'll try to offer helpful advice in any way I can. Whether they take it or not, of course, is up to them, but at least I made an effort to offer something constructive. I am a living example of being my own worst critic. There have been times I've beat the crap out of myself, saying "you're a hack, you can't do this, give it up." But I keep going. As I've gotten very few reviews, and kind of...lukewarm, on most of my fics, I figure, "hey, I guess I'm just mediocre. I can live with that!" One story did receive some very nice comments and it surprised me (an R rated, angsty romance of all things, not my usual! LOL) I guess we just gotta keep the faith!

Iggy- You shouldn't have problems posting now. Things seem to be going swimmingly from my side of the laptop screen. Of course, there is that, you have to log in to the archive you want to post to thing. But as far as I can see, that's really the only difference now.

I've got a serious question regarding OFCs and am interested in hearing opinions. In my fan fics, I always come up with OCs, as I feel it allows me to be more creative. One fic I wrote, a reviewer had said, quite kindly, that they weren't partial to Mary Sues but was liking my story. Hmmm, interesting. I replied that my story wasn't a Mary Sue, but that was the great thing about fiction, everybody got something different out of it. I also said I feel that every author puts a little of themselves into characters (a personality trait, physical characteristic, etc.) So my question is, do you think all OFCs, or OMCs for that matter, are Mary Sues/Gary Stus? I mean, Stephen King is the King (no pun intended) of putting himself in his stories (a writer, a school teacher). I personally felt that the Thorn Birds was one huge Mary Sue, before I even knew what the term meant (maybe before it even existed). Some of Margaret Mitchell's character traits showed up in Scarlett O'Hara, put I didn't feel that novel was a Mary Sue at all. Follow where I'm going with this? What do you think? Do you hate Mary Sues, avoid them like the plague, get ticked if you feel you've been duped into reading one? Or does it not matter, or can you overlook it if the story is fairly well written?

I am flagellating myself and mea culpa-ing all over the place. In truth, I do feel badly (a miniscule smidge that will pass in about, oh...hey it's gone already) that she felt the need to delete everything. But I'm sure she will find another site to post on, there's tons of them out there, after all. I can only hope I never run afoul of some of those same reviewers, so passionate and articulate in their opinions. It will make me cry and turn to finger painting or basket weaving instead. Of course, I wouldn't mind being spanked (verbally or otherwise) by the velvet voiced, über suave, Hans Gruber......mmmm......where was I? I love the Bad Fic Bloodhound title, btw. Kudos to the devilsh cad/saucy minx responsible.

WHA???? Are you guys serious? Was it deleted? I checked an hour ago.

Pixagi, Uhmmm....WTF???? Who is that person? I hate the stupidity of some of these people! And if she can't stand the heat of a bad review, then she should get the hell off the site. I've gotten reviews (no flames, thankfully) that I didn't agree with, but responded as graciously as I could. You've got to have a somewhat thick skin for this game, I think. As for a similar situation...the bad fic I pointed out in my post, actually started because the story had similarities to another. Which I pointed out to the author. In her next post, she addressed that (I'm just going to paraphrase). She said she never read the story that has similar themes. That she wrote her story two years ago, when she was sixteen, and posted it on another site, but it was removed for content. OK. When I looked at her user profile, it shows she joined AFF two years ago. Hmm, wouldn't that make her 16 then and in violation of the TOS? Also, why wouldn't she have posted it here in the first place? She posted three other stories last year, when she was 17, (if she's telling the truth about her age now). Then more good reviews started rolling in for her story and we've covered that aspect. There's a couple of other things that aren't adding up either, but I won't go into it. The upshot is, to my eyes, her credibility is shot. And she's too stupid to realize that she's not fooling anybody who has a brain in their head. The stubborness and tunnel vision of some of these kids, especially the under 18 crowd, really aggravates me. They jeopardize the site for everyone and they're just too thick to understand that.

I agree with you. I have never left a review saying "please stop writing." It's like anything else; don't like the song on the radio...change the station. Don't like that movie on t.v. switch channels. Don't like the fic, stop reading it. I've left some constructive reviews for people, pointing out what I liked, the general idea, or a specific character, but may have suggested proofing a little better, or creating new paragraphs when a new character starts speaking, that kind of thing. The fics I mentioned where people asked the author to stop, were intentionally bad and meant to shock and offend, nothing more; you could tell that from the first sentence, and I think that's what drove those people to review as they did. Melody, if that doesn't pan out, I've got some lovely swamp land...uh, beachfront property in Florida for sale.

Pixagi, my good woman, are you implying that I...I left that review? I deny such a charge, or accusation! <feigning righteous indignation> Any comments regarding that review should be directed to Herr Gruber. StoryJunkie, a few people have wanted the link, but I've held off, til now. Screw it, here it is: Bad Fic-Boffo Reviews I don't recommend trying to read the actual story, unless you're into self abuse. The reviews are funny as hell, though, in a pathetic sort of way. I know of a couple other fics that are absolutely AWFUL. I've seen reviews left begging the authors to leave the site. Now, that's pretty bad. I just wish I'd stop finding these things.

Yes, Chibi, the story is pretty bad, but the reviews for it are positively GLOWING. I think it's safe to say that the harsh review is a shoo-in to win the Pulitzer before the fic would.

Count me in on the shaving, (and the laziness factor, too). Something so nice and free about it. As for partners...I had one lover who shaved his, "twins", shall I say, and that was very, very nice indeed. He said it made them more sensitive and he wished he'd done it years before. Another guy I knew, just a friend, said the same thing.