madlodger

Er... Are we all Rapists now?

Self-censorship  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. How true to life does fiction have to be?

    • Every story about sex should be 100% based on scientific facts
      4
    • Some parts of sex stories could be far fetched
      20
    • Only people with degrees in sociology or psychology should attempt writing sex stories
      1
    • Only people who experienced violent crimes first hand should write sex stories about them
      3
    • Anyone of age can write sex stories, even without experience
      19
    • Not every story story should be 100% reality based
      18
    • There should be creative freedom to write whatever feels right
      44
    • Other (Explain)
      1


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This banner keeps appearing when I read stories. In fact, it was the first one I saw after logging into the forum. The advert banner is called "The Unheard Screams Charity Drive - helping raise awareness while helping the victims". It is linked to this page:

http://www.unfortunateslight.net/unheard_screams/

Helping victims of Abuse, Incest, and Rape is a noble cause, no doubt.

How did fanfiction get linked with real rapes, though? Or am I reading this wrong?

The point is this: There has been a trend in fan fiction writing where someone is raped, a non-con story, and a few paragraphs later, they're fine as if it never happened. That's not how real life works. The Unheard Screams Charity Drive is to raise awareness that rape is not something people just get over a few minutes after it has happened.

Ooookay... Does this mean that reading or writing fanfic about such issues is shameful and dirty? Or does this mean that I am supposedly unable to know the difference due to my extreme naivette?

I do enjoy slavefics, for example. Does this mean that I support slavery? Don't think so.

How about unprotected sex? Should everyone be wearing a condom in every fic?

How true to RL does fan and original fiction has to be? Should 100 per cent of all fics be a clinical account of real stories?

I am not happy to see fanfiction linked to real life crimes. I do not want hobbyist erotic writers, especially beginners, feel ashamed or unclean about expressing their fantasies, no matter how unrealistic. This is a world of makebelieve, not a support group.

Disclaimer: No werewolves or elves were raped during writing of this post.

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They're actually a sponsor, and it's a worthy cause. Has not a THING to do with fan fiction. Other than that, personally, I think you all should be able to write about whatever, because the point is to encourage creativity. Not squelch it.

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DemonGoddess061 Posted Today, 02:23 PM

They're actually a sponsor, and it's a worthy cause. Has not a THING to do with fan fiction. Other than that, personally, I think you all should be able to write about whatever, because the point is to encourage creativity. Not squelch it.

Giving money to a charitable organization is a worthy cause. There is no doubt about that.

I still cant wrap my mind around entangling this with fanfiction. Just talking about those things in the same page makes it guilty by association. This charity drive actually encourages to write more rape-fics! They accept submissions! But the submitted new stories are supposed to be true to real life.

This:

The Unheard Screams Charity Drive has gathered some very talented fan fiction writers who have agreed to lend their skill with words to this cause. Each has written a story dealing with rape, both women and men as the victims, and its after effects.

And this:

Stipulations for story submission are as follows: The actual N/C scenes can be graphic or glossed over, I'd much prefer glossed over but if you have the intestinal fortitude to do graphic, be my guest. After effects can be immediate or years later (sometimes it takes years for those things to surface). Can be in any fandom. Can be told from either perpetrator's, victim's, or someone close to the victim such as a significant other, close friend or family member's point of view. Please, none of the "I love you so much I couldn't help myself" bullshit.

All submissions will be read and the ones appropriate to the charity drive as well as follows the stipulations will be posted on this site.

What about fics with kidnappings? I am afraid to see an ad for a charity drive for Missed and Exploited Children next. Because Harry was kidnapped and tortured by Death Eaters and he was under 18 (canon, fanon)

I don't want to associate with real crimes in reading and writing fanfiction. Also, I am worried that this staff could get mentioned in laymen's publications about fanfiction, linking RL crimes to fanfiction in layperson's minds. Ones this happens, the damage would be nearly impossible to undo. Should we hire a PR person to guard fandom's reputation then?

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I don't handle the sponsor/adverts stuff, so I can't say that I've honestly looked at the site in depth.

Again, one of those things that me, I wouldn't necessarily encourage rape fic in fandom. Not my cup of tea. Having said that, my personal feelings and opinions on certain subjects are not what dictates what is allowable as far as specific content. That is as it should be. Were the archive to be set up according to my own personal tastes and likes/dislikes, I'd say more than half of what's here wouldn't be. But that would be based on my own personal opinions on subject matter. Which wouldn't be in keeping with what is actually allowable.

I'd say it's a good thing then I'm just a mod and forum geek :thumbsup:

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Ooookay... Does this mean that reading or writing fanfic about such issues is shameful and dirty? Or does this mean that I am supposedly unable to know the difference due to my extreme naivette?

What it looks like to me is that the problem isn't promoting rape, or approving it, but an unrealistic reaction on the part of the victim. The fics make it seem that rape is something you can shrug off.

Of course, taking a human life isn't usually something you shrug off, and often leaves you fucked up after, but few organizations complain about Rambo movies.

And Worf was on the bridge a week after his spine was replaced, which is unrealistic.

In fact, a lot of Trek characters recover from major surgery between episodes.

It's fiction. It's already unrealistic.

I do try to keep the reactions of my characters as realistic as possible,....but hell, two of them had sex inside a dragon, once. What's the metric to use for establishing the proper response for those characters?

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DemonGoddess061 - Quite a bit of archive's contents are not my cup of tea either. I do like the fact that it's allowed, though :thumbsup: I really appreciate the fact that AFF staff can be above personal likes and dislikes. This is a very mature approach and will only make the site stronger.

In retrospect, tech staff doesn't get enough recognition because fixing code happens behind the scenes. I bet it gets frustrating sometimes to hear constant moaning, bitching and complaining and not enough thanks. You guys are an asset to the fandom and I would like to thank all techs on AFF and all other archives as well!

Keith Inc. - You are so right on so many levels! However, let's dig deepper into the problem. Now, this is important:

In any public library children can find a crossdressing, vore story with elements of grooming a child for consumption called: Little Red Riding Hood. The wikipedia excerpt summs this fic pretty well:

...The girl walks through the woods to deliver food to her sick grandmother. A wolf wants to eat the girl but is afraid to do so in public. He approaches the girl, and she naïvely tells him where she is going. He suggests the girl pick some flowers, which she does. In the meantime, he goes to the grandmother's house and gains entry by pretending to be the girl. He swallows the grandmother whole, and waits for the girl, disguised as the grandmother. When the girl arrives, he swallows her whole too. A hunter, however, comes to the rescue and cuts the wolf open. Little Red Riding Hood and her grandmother emerge unharmed. They fill the wolf's body with heavy stones, which kill him...

???

Child and elderly abuse? Murder? Red and Grandma emerge out of the wolf's stomach unharmed and alive, as if the wolf's stomach is, in fact, a five star hotel room. If this was any realistic, the most that hunter could of recovered would be half regrugitated body parts. In the room splattered in blood and shit.

Age Range: 4 to 8 at B&N

This is a root cause of far-fetched adult fanfiction.

I insist that someone should do something about this, asap.

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First off, despite the fact that 90% of my fics entail some sort of sexual violence or rape, I refuse to be labelled as a rapist until I go out in the real world and actually rape someone (which, considering how many times I've watched Law and Order SVU and my overall shyness in real life, is never going to happen). Secondly, a lot of the reviews for my fanfic 'The Road to Kindess' say that the reader loves the story because it's more realistic. The main character actually doesn't go on once he is rescued and becomes a full functioning person again. I guess that's something that's always pissed me off about a lot of rapefics. As soon as the character is rescued or knows that the person they love loves them back, their issues with the rape mysteriously go away. Love can heal all wounds is a pretty sentiment, but it's bullshit in real life. My cousin was raped by his father when he was a little kid, he's 27 now and still has major issues about it.

Having such a banner is a very good thing, it raises awareness about, not only the victim, but what a good rapefic entails. Yeah, some people get off on it sexually and don't want to deal with the aftermath, but if those reviews mean anything, even more people want to see the psychological backlash such an act produces, but I also see how seeing that banner can make someone feel as if they're being blamed for something. Still, on some fiction sights, they just take words from the story and match it with the appropriate advertising, which ends up not so appropriate. You could be reading a nice sex scene about two werewolves and there's an ad on the bottom of the scream flashing about getting your dogs neutered. Not something you want on the page at that moment. Hey, at least this site knows what it's doing and it's not like fanfiction.net which will interrupt the entire page with an ad and you have to wait and look at the damn thing before you can go on to your reading. It's not only annoying, but after that happens, you can't use the keyboard to scroll down once you get to the fic.

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JayDee -

(madlodger @ Nov 13 2008, 04:21 PM)

Disclaimer: No werewolves or elves were raped during writing of this post.

You're not fooling anyone!

But they were dead already! So, technically it's not rape.

shinigamiinochi -

Having such a banner is a very good thing, it raises awareness about, not only the victim, but what a good rapefic entails.

To me, this banner implies that real people were harmed as a result of me reading non-con fiction. Now I am invited to pay real money to a RL charity organisation to make amends for my sin. As a reward, I'll get access to rape fics specifically written to educate me what horror I caused.

Still, on some fiction sights, they just take words from the story and match it with the appropriate advertising, which ends up not so appropriate. You could be reading a nice sex scene about two werewolves and there's an ad on the bottom of the scream flashing about getting your dogs neutered.

This is pretty funny actually! Which site does that? Is it a fan operated one?

fanfiction.net has just rewamped their entire interface and added more statisics and polls. They keep reinventing themselves. I know that they pissed off many writers deleting explicit fiction (I am personally pissed about Frizzy). But they seem to be solid and will stay long term.

Their ads, however annoying, never made me feel victimized.

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I wrote a story with a non-con theme (not posted here) and an aftermath portion. I had originally intended to have a segment on the character being healed, so to speak, a few months later. When I tried to write it, I realized it was unrealistic and finally stopped the story at the end of the rape.

My only other fic with non-con has the victim still traumatized some time later.

It's up to each author how they handle it, but expect to get complaints if it isn't handled in a reasonable manner.

Also, no, I don't think written non-con fiction encourages real life rape. I've read many murder mysteries, but I haven't murdered anyone, I swear.

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Err....I feel like it is necessary to point some things out here, for my own peace of mind.

I agree with the OP.

And...you know...I was raped a few years ago. I've been in abusive relationships, many since then, and yeah I'm messed up but I deal. It didn't destroy my life, if I had let it the person responsible would have won, correct? I'm not arguing with the fact that people aren't the same after, you aren't but really...everyone deals with it in different ways.

I feel that it is VERY unfair to say fiction of any kind causes repercussions in the real world. Does reading Hannibal Lector mean you're going to go take a bite out of the next person you see? Writing is a way to express our fantasies, our deepest darkest fears, and all the dirty little thoughts we are curious about but would never, ever do in real life.

I am bothered once in a while by the ads I see on sites, and I know they aren't the forum owner's fault usually...they often outsource to a company, or have no control at all.

(and shinigamiinochi, I don't mean any offence to you, or your cousin. My situation was obviously different, and I just wanted you to know that I don't think everyone just skips off into the sunset a week later. I have a lot of issues but they are more subtle then people would probably expect. Just wanted to make sure you didn't take my post the wrong way)

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no offense taken at all. I'm sorry about what happened to you and I think it is very admirable that you got back on your feet. I agree that fiction can't make you do anything. I've watched almost every horror movie ever made, but the most violence I've ever done to anyone or anything was in the seventh grade when I hit some girl over the head with a violin (long story). I have anger issues, yes, but I know the line between reality and fiction. If someone doesn't, it isn't the fault of the fiction, they would have done violence with or without the fiction.

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I write fan fiction. Many times, my fan fiction deals with adult topics. Rape is one of those topics. Am I a real life rapist? Far from it. I, myself, am a rape survivor. I was raped for several years by my baby sitter's nephew. I am affected by it. For instance, I can not trust men, simple as that.

Some would ask: Dark Savior, if you were raped, why would you write about rape? Like an actress, I take what has happened to me and call upon emotions that I have experienced while writing. This always the scene to feel real. Also, it helps me deal with what had happened to me.

Not everyone who writes rape scenes are rapists. Some may be doing what I am doing. It also depends on the setting of the story. If they are writing a dark age fan fictions, women did not have equal rights. I, often, place beatings, ect in my own stories because that is what happened in that time. Men owned women.

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Hmm. To add my two cents, I can say that they are right and wrong.

This is sort of like the violent video games/television shows arguement. Some people really distort reality, or get bad habits.

Likewise with rape.

I have no doubt that 99% of the people here are not rapists or one bit like their stories, and thats a good thing. BUT their point is you never know, and with these fictions out there it may tempt the mentally weaker or desperate people out there and they may get the wrong idea.

They also want people to know that rape is serious, which it is. They are using the fanfics as an example of what is NOT true. Not saying fanfiction is evil. But that it is not fully realistic and that anyone reading should not take rape lightly.

Thats my opinion.

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Can one of my characters rape one of your characters?

But seriously, not all banner ads are 100% related to the site in question. If the site is for a good cause, there's no reason to not let them advertise here or anywhere else. Don't let it offend you, I seriously doubt it's meant as a wink and a nudge in our general direction.

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banner ads are whatever they think would entice the forum populace the most. My highschool had a writers forum for a bit (degenerated into a chatroom really) and we managed to manipulate the ads by all plugging in the same word into our posts, even if they didnt' make sense (e.g paintball, condoms). It was good fun...

on topic though. People write and read these fiction because it turns them on. If I get turned on by rape fiction so be it. I'd never fathom actually raping someone, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying non-con. In fact I write almost exclusively non-con despite having no firsthand knowledge or even second hand knowledge of what it's like in real life. The same thing goes for porn. We all know sex in the real world is seldom like how they do it in the pornos but we still find it arousing and many of us are avid supporters of the porn industry. Gotta leave a little to the imagination, if you get my drift.

Creative Freedom FTW.

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I think Freud once wrote that a means of releasing aggression is vital to a healthy mind. If you write about rape and such, and can step back from the work and be on some level understand why rape in the real world is wrong, you should be fine. The key is the ability to feel empathy. Granted some of us are turned on by such power ego trip fantasies, but the important thing is to not allow reality and dark fantasy to blur.

Also in response to the quote, if the character in the story is raped one minute and then fine the next, that is a sign of a bad author, NOT a bad genre.

Edited by jungledrums

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Does this mean that reading or writing fanfic about such issues is shameful and dirty?

Well definitely not. Thou if you are thinking on a religious level, then yes. But that's another discussion issue.

How true to RL does fan and original fiction has to be?

Should 100 per cent of all fics be a clinical account of real stories?

It should be true enough so that it is logical, at least. It doesnt have to be real life accounts. But. It should be logical.

Because no matter what, we learn alot from what we read, regardless fiction or non-fiction.

Like per-say, the quote said

"There has been a trend in fan fiction writing where someone is raped, a non-con story, and a few paragraphs later, they're fine as if it never happened. That's not how real life works."

So, what I would advice authors out there is. If you are going to write about non-con, and such, don't be ridiculous and have the character 'super heal' and be a-ok.

If you don't want the trouble of writing about an 'emotionally damaged' character, then don't get him/her raped in the first place.

And madloger,

as for the advert banners here on aff. Well honestly, aff can't do anything about it. They need money, so I think they'd take in any donations and sponsors they can get.

If you are wondering why these 'sponsors' CHOSE aff to put up their banner, then you can just think of them as 'overly concerned'.

For the normal passerby, someone who writes erotica and such, is a 'dangerous' person, thou honestly, we are harmless.

People don't feel safe with us, I understand, just let them be paranoid. *shrugs*

But when a crime of rape and kidnapping does occur, the world would know that it will NOT link back to authors of fiction about rapes and kidnapping.

Get it? Real life rapist and kidnappers are all sick in the head, or desperate for something. Such people would not be capable to write out stories, let alone read them all.

I can go on and on about this... but. I think I'll stop now.

My point got across yeah?

*patpat* take a deep breath madloger, and go read some humour section stuff. okay. Relax? ^__^""

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I personally and i can not talk for other fanfic writers and readers or for that matters any writter in general, but i started fanfic writting and reading as an escape into fantasy from my own at the time harsh reality.

Though my reality hasnt improved much since then, I enjoy the escapism that these story give me. As a writter i enjoy occasional pushing the bounderies between what is taboo in this world and the world i write in if that makes sense.

I have written rape, incest, child abuse and many other things in the past,, but i do not condone these acts in anyway. As for safe sex well it kinda kills the flow to have one character stop to put on a condom or diaphram.

Stories dont have to be reality and thats what makes them such a great escape from said reality. The problem lies i think when people take these sometimes violent and otherwise controversial storylines and plot to heart. We write fun dont we?

Any oen who takes these themes too strongly should not be reading or writting this stuff to start with. Writting and reality are to things within the world of fiction that jsut dont mesh, fiction is our own escape into fantasy.

People use to love reading books like treasure island and sherlock holmes, but did those people grow up to become pirates or vigilante detectives? I think not.

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Yeah, I'm a rapist because I like to read non-con stories. ;)

And someday I'll get off my lazy butt and write one!

You arn't constructive much, eh. *rollseyes back at you* Sarcastic ;)

mistress of yaoi >> true, what you say. It's just that people react more strongly when they find/read material that is taboo and controversial.

There's nothing wrong with (reading / writing about) detective stuff, or pirate stuff, or even murder. Because, thou it may be frowned upon, it is not personal unless you are directly involved.

But with it comes down to a sexual-related topics, and taboo, it becomes personal. Because of what society has set as 'basic rules' (something like that). Get it?

I hope my rambles arn't hard to understand @___@"

btw, mistress of yaoi, love your siggy ;3

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and mistress loves you name Nekoii!

I think i understand at what your trying to get as well, i think the real problem is keeping this kind of material out of the hands of fragile young minds yes?

I dont even feel comfortable letting my 18 year old sister read my yaoi stuff. shes all like twincest ewww.

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and mistress loves you name Nekoii!

I think i understand at what your trying to get as well, i think the real problem is keeping this kind of material out of the hands of fragile young minds yes?

I dont even feel comfortable letting my 18 year old sister read my yaoi stuff. shes all like twincest ewww.

thanks :3

and yes, just keep this sort of material away from those 'pure innocent fragile' minds along with those 'paranoid narrow-minded closet-cases' people. And all should be well~ ^____^

I'm not even that comfortable letting my best friend know that i'm still into yaoi or M/M (even thou, she was the one who intro'ed it to me o_O" )

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Guest Naga-Lord

Disclaimer: No werewolves or elves were raped during writing of this post.

Oh my LORDS! I know this is a very old post, but. But. Madlodger, I just got to love you for that comment xD

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