Fashion in Fanfiction

[DarkInuLord]

Dear writers;

It has come to my attention that some of you like to describe the clothes the characters are wearing, now, that's fine and dandy.

On the other hand. Do you really need to tell me that the character is wearing high heel prada shoes and a gucci hand bag? I don't even know what the fuck either of those are. I've never even HEARD of "gucci", it sounds like some kind of gross sex toy or something. Sure it's nice you're adding in detail, but it's more like you're adding in your shopping list, and does not make me want to keep reading.

That is all. Thank you.

[PorkChopExpress86]

Dear writers;

It has come to my attention that some of you like to describe the clothes the characters are wearing, now, that's fine and dandy.

On the other hand. Do you really need to tell me that the character is wearing high heel prada shoes and a gucci hand bag? I don't even know what the fuck either of those are. I've never even HEARD of "gucci", it sounds like some kind of gross sex toy or something. Sure it's nice you're adding in detail, but it's more like you're adding in your shopping list, and does not make me want to keep reading.

That is all. Thank you.

You've never heard of Gucci and Prada? The reason people mention them are because they are fashion icons that are internationally renown. I can defiantly see how it would be important to note those items if it was relevant to the character. If the character is wealthy or goes out of their way to engage in conspicuous consumption those things could tell you about their personality. However, if it’s just a normal person those things are a little unrealistic. CHEAP Prada shoes are $500 a pair.

[DarkInuLord]

Sounds like an enormous waste of money for uncomfortable shoes.

And everyone who buys a pair is materialistic and probably going to hell for Vanity. :3(Or the equivalent for your religion of choice.)

I'll stick with my $14 k-mart brand shoes. And not have to go check the label on my shirt just to write a story.

[PorkChopExpress86]

Sounds like an enormous waste of money for uncomfortable shoes.

And everyone who buys a pair is materialistic and probably going to hell for Vanity. :3(Or the equivalent for your religion of choice.)

I'll stick with my $14 k-mart brand shoes. And not have to go check the label on my shirt just to write a story.

That's just your frame of reference. I sold high end mens clothing for a year and while my most expensive suits were around $800, I watched $4,000 suits go out the door on a daily basis. For some people it is a status thing and they want people to know they are wearing pricey clothes, but for the vast majority of the people who shopped there, that level of quality was the only thing they had ever known. Someone living in subsaharan africa might see your $14 (the equivelant of a month's worth of income) shoes in exactly the same light as you see prada shoes.

[DarkInuLord]

Yes but come on, we aren't living in some third world country here, and prada shoes aren't from some first world super country that everything is more expensive in.

No, we're in America (Or at least I am) and so are Prada shoes. People who live thinking they should just buy the most expensive things because they think they're 'better' are just... Dumb... I mean, I've watched TV before. "Stars" are some of the dumbest people I've ever seen.

I mean I can see buying an expensive suit if you're trying to impress someone to get a better job or a promotion, but I can't see the point in buying a $4,000 suit over a $400 one. What's the real difference in them? The name, of course.

I'm sure you could slap the name "Prada" on the side of some flip flops and sell them for $500 or more.

Point was though, I hate seeing name brands, sizes, directions on whether to dry clean or not, and what temperature water to use in fanfiction.

[shinigamiinochi]

I agree that brand names like 'Prada' are just a huge waste of money. I understand that such things are mostly used as a status symbol, but I, personally, am not that insecure with myself to need to show off my purse or shoes. I've worn the same sneakers and twenty dollar purse for years, to me it's just a way to keep my feet safe and a place to hold my crap. When describing what my characters wear, I have no clue about brand names or styles, so I usually just write 'blue dress' or 'black t-shirt'. Sometimes when I read fics and someone is describing a clothing line, I'm totally lost and I just don't feel like knowing brand names is important.

[PorkChopExpress86]

Thats the world you live in. It's not the world everyone lives in. The people that buy Prada, Gucci, and Oxxford and Brinoi suits do so with about the same ammount of thought that you put into your $20 shoes and bags. I watched a customer drop $4,000 while killing time, waiting for a lunch appointment. I saw a man spend $500 on SOCKS. nothing else. just socks. How's he gonna flaunt his socks to his friends? Designer lables are only flashy to people who make under a quarter million a year. To the people that make more, it's tuesday. And those are the people that these items are marketed towards.

[shinigamiinochi]

I realize that, but what I'm talking about is people using such designer labels in fiction. It is perfectly acceptable to do so, but the author should understand that not all of their readers are going to understand what they're talking about. If I make a referance to a horror movie, I'm not just going to let it stand. Yes, probably some of my audience is going to get it, but I want all my readers to understand me and, quite frankly, when you read something and don't know what the author is describing, it makes you feel stupid, so I always explain the reference so everyone gets the joke. If you're going to use brand names, assume that not everyone knows what you're talking about. I've seen brand names used in place of actual items, so not only do you not know what the thing looks like, you don't even know if it's a purse or shoe. As an author, you can do what you like, but it would still be nice to get more of a description than 'Gucci'.

[Kanashii]

I think as an author one walks a fine line about using designer lables in stories. First, you run into the problem of "dating" you work, (which is fine, if you don't mind a story 'dated') for example. In the 1970's the name "Casio" would be what Rolex is now, same with some Timex watches in the 1950's, however, today "casio and timex" are considered "cheap" or everyday items.

If I mentioned Bill Blass or Hugo Boss, or Givanche (I know I mangled that spelling!) it would be very "1980's". Back in the 1980's there was no "Praada". 20 years from now, Prada or Gucci or whatever, may be as "by the roadside" as Bill Blass and Hugo Boss or Adidas.

Now, I do agree that sometimes one can and must put in some description of something in a story. For example, a powerful CEO or Mob Boss might be wearing a custom made Italian designer suit or shoes. A Movie starlet may be wearing a high-end watch or jewelry or fragrance. But, nothing bores a reader in my humble experience of making your character sound like a Police Rap sheet.

"Suzie Q was 5'10 and 120 pounds of gorgeous hollywood tan. She wore a pink designer dress, with gold dangle earrings and carried a sparkly name-dropping purse with her Chihuahua, Bowser, inside.

Suzie wore only the best pink shoes with a 5 inch stiletto heel on it, and ...."

You get the idea. I like to sprinke a characters description throught the story so you get to know them a little at a time, just as you would someone in real life.

As Porkchop said, there are folks who it is nothing for them to drop 10k on some "casual" clothing. It's their money and they can do as they wish. If in your story you are writing about a high powered Lawyer or Movie executive, then a few snippets here and there on their dress can enhance them.

But, as Dark Lord said, not everyone knows what certain names are. Cadini shoes may mean something to men who buy them, but to most people they scratch their heads going..."Huh?" So it can help to write your story to the widest audience and say, "He wore expensive Italian loafers that cost the price of new car". That leaves to the reader that this man thinks nothing of dropping a bundle on his clothing without having to "date" your piece.

JMHO

Warmly,

Kanashii

[Keith Inc.]

i couldn't tell Prada from Knock-off Prada if i was chewing on the label, but some of my characters might. Well, no, not my characters.

I can imagine some of them knowing the carat size of the woman's diamond, or the approximate value of their jewelry. Which would be a defining trait, if she's wearing a $5000 diamond or $300 worth of glass paste. And whether she knows the difference.

If the man has a $20 haircut from the mall or a $400 haircut, that tells a lot about how vain he is. Or maybe how much a junior partner wants to impress the senior ones.

In some circles, people gain celebrity for being connected to a Broadway play. Or an Off-broadway play. I don't really feel the difference viscerally, but to others, it's an important mark of status. In the setting, that may be an important trait.

My kids seem to be terribly concerned with the shoes they and others are wearing. I haven't been that concerned with shoes since boot camp.

On the other hand, as several point out, they're not all distinctions that everyone can immediately grasp. Except money. So there could be a line in there about 'Between the Prada and the Gucci, the director's visible worth was at least $500 more than her assistant's.' Or some other way to convey why it is important that the man is ordering Fillet Mignon vice the hamburger. is it for the calories? The cost? An appreciation of the finer things in life? A passion for things with French Names?

I would say that the author should use these extra clues to define a character, but keep in mind that not everyone is a fashionista.

[DarkInuLord]

Funny thing... Even if I was born into money I'd still prefer a nice juicy hamburger over fillet Mignon, that is unless I already had hamburgers the other 6 days of the week. :3

[Kanashii]

Funny thing... Even if I was born into money I'd still prefer a nice juicy hamburger over fillet Mignon, that is unless I already had hamburgers the other 6 days of the week. :3

That is sad, Dark Lord.... Gimme the steak! Steak for breakfast, lunch and dinner. No other side dishes, just ultra rare, still bleeding steak or (Mutton, goat, Buffalo, I'm not picky). I am a self-avowed, practicing Carniverian. That is, I only eat meat and leave the plants to live in peace.

Warmly,

Kanashii

[PorkChopExpress86]

That is sad, Dark Lord.... Gimme the steak! Steak for breakfast, lunch and dinner. No other side dishes, just ultra rare, still bleeding steak or (Mutton, goat, Buffalo, I'm not picky). I am a self-avowed, practicing Carniverian. That is, I only eat meat and leave the plants to live in peace.

Warmly,

Kanashii

lol, have to agree with you there. I follow Maddox's adopt a vegetarian plan. For every animal you DON'T eat, I eat 3. Nothing beats a well prepared steak (although mine has to be cooked. also, buffalo steak FTW!) And yeah maybe I misinterpreted the OP a bit.

If gucci is the ONLY way you describe an item then thats simply a poor description. But if the character is a part of that world then he'll know more then that about the item anyway. Google Lucchese Boots and look at everything they have. Those boots can go from 500 to 5,000, depending on the options and most people who wear them know what they are. I never did much to sell them becuase those were always my boss's customers, but let me assure you it can take an hour to build your custom boots. Most high end clothing (for men anyway) is custom tailored and the details that go into custom work should be described by an author.

[Kanashii]

lol, have to agree with you there. I follow Maddox's adopt a vegetarian plan. For every animal you DON'T eat, I eat 3. Nothing beats a well prepared steak (although mine has to be cooked. also, buffalo steak FTW!) And yeah maybe I misinterpreted the OP a bit.

If gucci is the ONLY way you describe an item then thats simply a poor description. But if the character is a part of that world then he'll know more then that about the item anyway. Google Lucchese Boots and look at everything they have. Those boots can go from 500 to 5,000, depending on the options and most people who wear them know what they are. I never did much to sell them becuase those were always my boss's customers, but let me assure you it can take an hour to build your custom boots. Most high end clothing (for men anyway) is custom tailored and the details that go into custom work should be described by an author.

Well Porkchop,

If I need advice on expensive mens clothing, I am warning you right now, you will be my sage! Since I write a lot of stuff on the mob, and many of these guys like to flash the nice expensive stuff (Yep, know about the Lucchese and Cadini's) But as someone who really has studied what these guys wear, the details may be interesting to me and you, but, your average reader will not really be able to tell the difference between a Lucchese shoe or just a "generic expensive Italian show" but occasionally name dropping a designer can work in a story.

And yes, Buffalo steak is the best! I love your quote about us helping out the vegetarians. I need to read up on Maddox. One thing I always enjoy about your posts is the detail of your research and knowlege. Yeah, I'm a detail and knowledge freak as well, so enjoy reading it.

Warmly,

Kanashii

[PorkChopExpress86]

Well Porkchop,

If I need advice on expensive mens clothing, I am warning you right now, you will be my sage! Since I write a lot of stuff on the mob, and many of these guys like to flash the nice expensive stuff (Yep, know about the Lucchese and Cadini's) But as someone who really has studied what these guys wear, the details may be interesting to me and you, but, your average reader will not really be able to tell the difference between a Lucchese shoe or just a "generic expensive Italian show" but occasionally name dropping a designer can work in a story.

And yes, Buffalo steak is the best! I love your quote about us helping out the vegetarians. I need to read up on Maddox. One thing I always enjoy about your posts is the detail of your research and knowlege. Yeah, I'm a detail and knowledge freak as well, so enjoy reading it.

Warmly,

Kanashii

lol, well thanks. I try to support what I say, especialy if its an argument. I'll help you out as much as I can. Just remember, if its the mob it has to be italian. Brioni suits (i misspelled it earlier) are probably the only way to go for the Capo and his top men. Their top suits could be a downpayment on a house.

[Kanashii]

lol, well thanks. I try to support what I say, especialy if its an argument. I'll help you out as much as I can. Just remember, if its the mob it has to be italian. Brioni suits (i misspelled it earlier) are probably the only way to go for the Capo and his top men. Their top suits could be a downpayment on a house.

Tell me about it! These guys like to dress nice and flaunt it off (as you said, mainly the Capos and above, although a few cugines aren't above 'wearing it' to flaunt it.). There were a few places in Chicago and Philly I would hang out at, and you could just SMELL the money off some of these guys. One fellow used to come in at a place in Chicago and he must have wore close to 200 grand of clothing, shoes and jewelry or watch at any given time. Drove an old jalopy (Delta 98), but he sure did flaunt his wealth in clothing!

Ok, so we have Brioni, Lucchese, Cadini..(those are all I am aware of off the top of my head) what other big Italian name mens clothing (expensive) can you tell me about? (Filing all this information away for future stories). Feel free to take it to PM or email if it is off topic.

Warmly,

Kanashii

[PorkChopExpress86]

Tell me about it! These guys like to dress nice and flaunt it off (as you said, mainly the Capos and above, although a few cugines aren't above 'wearing it' to flaunt it.). There were a few places in Chicago and Philly I would hang out at, and you could just SMELL the money off some of these guys. One fellow used to come in at a place in Chicago and he must have wore close to 200 grand of clothing, shoes and jewelry or watch at any given time. Drove an old jalopy (Delta 98), but he sure did flaunt his wealth in clothing!

Ok, so we have Brioni, Lucchese, Cadini..(those are all I am aware of off the top of my head) what other big Italian name mens clothing (expensive) can you tell me about? (Filing all this information away for future stories). Feel free to take it to PM or email if it is off topic.

Warmly,

Kanashii

Actually, lucchese are american boots. hand made in El Paso, Texas.

Allen Edmons are top quality shoes that run from about $350-700. But if we're still going with Italian Zelli makes pretty nice shoes and are much more fashionable. Lots of unusual leathers and interesting designs. http://www.zellishoes.com/ Both of those companies also do high end belts for many hundreds of dollars.

Are you setting stories in Chicago? Oxxford Clothes is based there and they are just as expensive as Brioni. Off the rack Oxxford goes from about 3 thousand to 5 thousand and custom work can run up to 15 thousand (thats the most expensive suit my boss had ever personally sold). Brioni runs about 10 to 15% higher, largly due to import costs. Italian Americans who have no firsthand connection to italy would probably be just as likely to buy from them. Armani of course would be more recognizable to some of the lower level guys. While Armani does use top shelf fabrics, their manufacturing isn't nearly the quality of Oxxford and Brioni. Most of Armani's clothing is machine sewn where as the two I mentioned are 95% hand stitched. Hicky Freeman is a nice mid level company with off the rack suits going from 2-3.5k and custom jobs topping out at about 6k.

A great way to do some research on other things like watches and jewelry for men is to pick up a magazine called The Robb Report. Particularly the Best of issue at the end of the year. They advertise $80,000 watches, personal airplanes, and quarter million dollar cars in there regularly. Its fun to look through and realize that someone can spend more on a single piece of merchandise then you will make all year... lol. hope that helped.

[Kanashii]

Thanks PC, it sure did help.

Warmly,

Kanashii

[Keith Inc.]

Funny thing... Even if I was born into money I'd still prefer a nice juicy hamburger over fillet Mignon, that is unless I already had hamburgers the other 6 days of the week. :3

Hell, i enjoy plastic meat. Those premade sandwiches in the gas station? I like a couple of those and a coke on a long drive.

Thing is, i can tell the difference between those and a fillet Mignon. Some people can't.

And, really, if you're ordering a hamburger because you like it more, that's saying something about your character. If a fictional character is described as liking hamburgers, but ordering the fillet exactly because it's more expensive, that says something different about that character.

[PorkChopExpress86]

Hell, i enjoy plastic meat. Those premade sandwiches in the gas station? I like a couple of those and a coke on a long drive.

man... the last time i had a gas station sandwich i thought i was going to die... did you see that episode of futurama? nothing like that.