Community Discussion Requested

[Guest Jaxxy]

[..., ..., ...] Any and all observations will be treasured -- this type of thing makes me very unhappy.

All that, only to find a "MAILER-DAEMON" in the admin email.

Seems when I sent my reply, I'd already been blocked. I can only surmise that her letter was intended to 'correct' me, and not to invite open dialogue (or actually enquire), after all. I always hope differently. It's more than possible. We

can

speak to one another. We

could

find a way to work together...

that

is how good things happen.

Anyway, I have visited the review board of the Story to which she linked me, and it is very much burning with both lovers and haters of the (and such) tale(s). So... between leaving a review asking them to bring the discussion to the Forum (largely because we can't have the Archive's coding unnecessarily strained, if just until the repair/rewrite is completed), and attempting to reply to that lady's email... it looks like I've done all that can do. Specifically, anyway.

I've linked those -- very many -- reviewers to this thread, so, hopefully, they'll come visit, and we can open one of those good dialogues... I yearn for the opportunity. Huh... maybe that lady'll even come by. That'd be nice.

There's no reason for

'us'

to have to live in a constant state of shame and fear, or for

'them'

to have to live in a constant state of hatred and (look! all people, no 'us', no 'them')

fear

, either. Such a waste.

[JayDee]

Jaxxy, given the same story is linked, and similar comments made re: TOS, could the person who emailed you be the same guest posting on the forum here? looking for 'open dialogue?

Also, I suspect they have mis-understood your TOS, as they don't seem to understand it is users who need to demonstrate a belief that nothing is offensive/obscene to use the service, or else not use the site?

[Kip]

Hi

As the author of the story that 'Heartbroken' is referring to, I would just like to say how astonished I am that some people seem to be villifying my fic... there are certainly a lot more contentious works on the site, and as someone has helpfully pointed out - no one seems to be bothered about underage Harry Potter getting treated appallingly. My guess is that it's the 'real' aspect of my story which is causing the issues, but it is a fic.

I posted in the Originals/Erotica section because of the action between the two (adult) characters - and might have put it in 'Slash' but that didn't seem to fit with the little girl character being there. If anyone else can suggest a more appropriate genre then I have no objection to it being moved (but with 33 chapters already posted, I'm not keen to start shifting it myself).

Annoyingly enough, judging from the reviews (both positive and negative), a lot of people have assumed that they already know where the story is going, and seem to be commenting accordingly - and doing so with very little basis but suspicion and supposition. Which says a lot more about those reviewers than it does about the story or it's theme... I purposely made the rating as high as I could, put warnings in the synopsis, and posted where I was sure that the 'innocent' would not accidentally stumble on it, but still people are complaining...

As it happens, I am quite in accord with some of the points made by 'Heartbroken' about children not being sex objects, and that child abuse should not be portrayed in a positive light, but to assume that evil necessarily looks evil, is to miss the point. If we could see into people, then children and vulnerable adults would be safe, as would the rest of us, since everyone would be able to spot a 'bad 'un' a mile off!

If anyone thinks that my story is condoning abuse, then I'm sorry that they have chosen to interpret it that way - that certainly was not my intention in writing it. I have established the characters, laid out a feasible thread, and followed it -the conclusion (which is not yet written, and therefore I defy anyone to pass comment on it yet) will tie all of those points together, and present one possible outcome. I refuse to offer any suggestions as to what that will be, as I detest plot spoilers.

In passing, I might also point out that I object strongly to people connecting my writing to my real life - if it were true that we are what we write then by now I would most certainly be an attractive young/ish gay man, well loved, and probably quite rich... which would make a nice change!

I have stated again at the start of the most recent chapter that I welcome respectful constructive criticism, even if that happens not to coincide with my own opinions, but I'm not happy with being flamed over something that was never my intention in the first place, and I have directed any non-review comments toward this forum.

'Purr

[luvinfanfic]

Hi

As the author of the story that 'Heartbroken' is referring to, I would just like to say how astonished I am that some people seem to be villifying my fic... there are certainly a lot more contentious works on the site, and as someone has helpfully pointed out - no one seems to be bothered about underage Harry Potter getting treated appallingly. My guess is that it's the 'real' aspect of my story which is causing the issues, but it is a fic.

I posted in the Originals/Erotica section because of the action between the two (adult) characters - and might have put it in 'Slash' but that didn't seem to fit with the little girl character being there. If anyone else can suggest a more appropriate genre then I have no objection to it being moved (but with 33 chapters already posted, I'm not keen to start shifting it myself).

Annoyingly enough, judging from the reviews (both positive and negative), a lot of people have assumed that they already know where the story is going, and seem to be commenting accordingly - and doing so with very little basis but suspicion and supposition. Which says a lot more about those reviewers than it does about the story or it's theme... I purposely made the rating as high as I could, put warnings in the synopsis, and posted where I was sure that the 'innocent' would not accidentally stumble on it, but still people are complaining...

As it happens, I am quite in accord with some of the points made by 'Heartbroken' about children not being sex objects, and that child abuse should not be portrayed in a positive light, but to assume that evil necessarily looks evil, is to miss the point. If we could see into people, then children and vulnerable adults would be safe, as would the rest of us, since everyone would be able to spot a 'bad 'un' a mile off!

If anyone thinks that my story is condoning abuse, then I'm sorry that they have chosen to interpret it that way - that certainly was not my intention in writing it. I have established the characters, laid out a feasible thread, and followed it -the conclusion (which is not yet written, and therefore I defy anyone to pass comment on it yet) will tie all of those points together, and present one possible outcome. I refuse to offer any suggestions as to what that will be, as I detest plot spoilers.

In passing, I might also point out that I object strongly to people connecting my writing to my real life - if it were true that we are what we write then by now I would most certainly be an attractive young/ish gay man, well loved, and probably quite rich... which would make a nice change!

I have stated again at the start of the most recent chapter that I welcome respectful constructive criticism, even if that happens not to coincide with my own opinions, but I'm not happy with being flamed over something that was never my intention in the first place, and I have directed any non-review comments toward this forum.

'Purr

If I could add just one last thing. You should indeed move the story to the Darkfic category because it is apparent it will remain. You said it yourself don't like don't read well the description alone makes my skin crawl (my opinion/feelings) and it was because of that alone I closed down my web browser no longer having a desire to read anything of a sexual nature.

This subject does strike a cord with me and reading just that little bit brought attention to things I come to AFF to escape from. I work for the state not only with children coming from such backgrounds but also with those who had a hand in causing the pain and trauma to them. Everyday I see registered offenders and often have to listen to their justifications. (this is where I'm coming from)

With that, yes I would like the story removed but as myself and others have been told over and over it is all freedom of expression. Please move this story to Darkfic because it is at the very least that.

Luvinfanfic

http://www2.adult-fanfiction.org/forum/inde...?showtopic=6273

As for people believing that all of us against such things are one in the same I can tell you that it is not true and also add that Spanky/Heartbroken and I are related (cousins if you must know) but against popular belief are not one in the same.

Edited August 23, 2008 by luvinfanfic

[JayDee]

I purposely made the rating as high as I could, put warnings in the synopsis, and posted where I was sure that the 'innocent' would not accidentally stumble on it, but still people are complaining...

Testify! Same thing happens with me all the damn time, and I don't even write about kids!

[luvinfanfic]

Quickly I'd like to add that all stories of this nature fall under the Darkfic category not just the one in question. There are categories for a reason and I believe the reason they are not used is because of the lack of traffic. That still doesn't change where stories belong.

As for the Darkfic category I believe if more stories were placed there as they should be there would be less of this back and forth going on.

[Guest Jaxxy]

Jaxxy, given the same story is linked, and similar comments made re: TOS, could the person who emailed you be the same guest posting on the forum

here?

looking for 'open dialogue?[...]

Oh, thanks a ton,

JayDee

. I went over there and pretty much blew up the server what with all the pink... I, uh, needed two reply forms for my reply to one post!

I can't be sure which email they wrote, but they're pretty upset I shared it, even with no name.

And yeah, I'm not too sure where the misunderstanding lies with the TOS, but I'm trying to figure out if it's on my end. I'm kind of taken aback, here, because this has been the basic TOS's wording for... longer than I've been here, probably. All I've done is boil it down and soften it up... like brussels sprouts... mm...

[Guest Agaib]

All I've done is boil it down and soften it up... like brussels sprouts... mm...

Wow, you're very easily distracted. As a side note, I unfortunately have a certain gene that makes it impossible for Me to really enjoy brussel sprouts.

hehe, well I'm not sure why they're so upset you shared the email. Especially since you didn't post a name or anything. If someone is going to send threatening letters charging us with obscenity violations I think we have a right to engage in a community discussion about the validity of the demands.

I certainly wouldn't last long in an environment where shocking material were to be removed from the archive. All but one of My stories involve things that would shock the average conscience.

I think I'm going to go write about lonely virgins and horny unicorns now.

[Guest Jaxxy]

[...] As for the Darkfic category I believe if more stories were placed there as they should be there would be less of this back and forth going on.

Been processing... here's a bunch of questions and considerations for you to comment on, think about, or just read.

• Need to more rigidly define "Darkfic". I can see how fiction exploring the "darker side of the human mind" (such as the many like "Brandy") could be defined as such -- all perspectives seem to agree that, at least in this time period (in 50 years, who knows?), fiction exploring the "darker side of the human mind" is Darkfic. (
  I
  always thought of Darkfic as things like snuff, deathfic, and brain-eating, but it never really involved me. Any relative experts here? And if you know one, could you drag 'em by?)
  
  

• When we successfully define the boundaries of Darkfic, would placing a Darkfic Sub-Category in each Archive suffice, or should it be all... "Alcatraz'd"?
  
  

• If it is popular opinion that fiction involving children be considered Darkfic (I'd had that thought, but, for a few reasons, put it by the wayside),
  and
  a Sub-Category is not enough, we should discuss proposed manifestations, goals, and definitions of its best categorization. (Ideally, we would come up with something that's somewhat-to-very unique to AFF; directly copying other archives is quasi-plagiaristic to me).
  
  

• What
  other
  things constitute Darkfic? As
  luvinfanfic
  has exemplified, in his/her position, s/he is deeply disturbed by children in fiction, because s/he works with children every day. So, there's this: Many who've been raped in one way or another must also "shut the browser" when they so much as see the word. Is the "shut the browser" factor an accurate definition of Darkfic? It's difficult to imagine what one kind of thing there could be that wouldn't bother
  someone
  . The likely question remains: Where to draw the line?
  
  

• Keep in mind that, if we do this,
  any
  Story concerning "the darker side of the human mind" would then need to go into Darkfic, right along with "Brandy".
  
  

• If we blow things out of proportion for any type of fic, the whole fiction community could possibly be thrown into a tizz -- customarily and necessarily, this is something that has been avoided. Let's not get anyone harassed.
  
  

• For the Administrators, there's an additional challenge: Is this going to be technically feasible? The coding
  is
  pretty much undergoing a twelve month long open-heart operation at the moment, and some things may not even be physically possible, at least until the re-write is complete (easily months).
  
  

[Kip]

• (
  I
  always thought of Darkfic as things like snuff, deathfic, and brain-eating, but it never really involved me ... )
  
  

Actually - so did I ... which was why I posted "Brandy" where I did ... although, as I offered previously, I will move it if given sufficient justification for doing so (i.e. not just one person), although I am not convinced that it belongs there. When it is finished, if a move is still widely requested, then I will of course, comply...

As for the furore over the (largely perceived) content of "Brandy", there are a lot of PWP-type underage and very-underage sex stories in this category and elsewhere, going into a great deal of detail - which I have purposely not done for any scene involving the younger character. The full sex in my story is between the two consenting adult males, which as far as I can see makes it Slash rather than Dark... True there is action that in the real world is inappropriate with a minor, but even that is fairly tame (or else purely implied), certainly in comparison to other works in this category.

And, in response to points made in a related thread by 'Spanky' - why 14? That's below the legal age of consent in most countries... why not go with 16 or 18 if we're going to impose limits?

However; since people seem to be reading a lot into my synopsis, I have amended the wording slightly. I would like to suggest that if people are going to criticise a writer's work it would be fairer if they did so on the basis of what is actually in it, rather than what they think MIGHT might be in it, otherwise they could always exercise the option of skipping the thing altogether and reading something else.

Keep in mind that, if we do this, any Story concerning "the darker side of the human mind" would then need to go into Darkfic, right along with "Brandy".

Working on that definition then half of the site is going to end up Dark - considering, as has already been pointed out elsewhere, that you cannot please everyone, there will undoubtedly be at least one person offended by anything that is not 'Vanilla'... or probably even something that is...

I leave you all to debate further... I have some writing to do...

'Purr

[Guest Jaxxy]

Wow, you're very easily distracted.

I was going to reply to this earlier, but you guessed it...

[...] I think I'm going to go write about lonely virgins and horny unicorns now.

I'm glad to've been an inspiration in at least one way!

[Guest Jaxxy]

Working on that definition then half of the site is going to end up Dark - considering, as has already been pointed out elsewhere, that you cannot please everyone, there will undoubtedly be at least one person offended by anything that is not 'Vanilla'... or probably even something that is...

Yeah, I posted those points in hopes we'd think about the ramifications of these ideas together, and search for a solution... if there is one. Any organization that upholds "radical" philosophies (which seem like plain old common sense to me) is going to have a rough time of it. That's why most don't. Middle of the road is easy because no one can be

totally

opposite of you while you're there.

What you say is what I think we all fear. It is a distinct possibility that, if we used the "browser shutting" rule (which is all I can think of so far, insofar as managing content in a such a way as to satisfy the greatest possible number of AFF'ers), we would have 95% of the ficcage in "Darkfic" and 5% in..."Hey, we're pretty much FFN2, kids welcome".

My goal is to find something to improve the site... not to render its significance moot. If there is a way more people can be made happier here, I'll make it happen, but if there is nothing I can do, obviously I won't. What I'm sure of is this: The more detailed this discussion gets, the more we've exercised our best due diligence. Just saying we do it isn't sufficient; we've got to show it, and mean it.

By the way,

Kip

/

'Purr

(love the Beatles!) (oh, and lol @ kipper), I wanted to say that I think your appearance over here, and on the Archive, is brave. If all this criticizm isn't hurting your feelings, I can't imagine how. So, at the risk of looking like even more of a child molestor advocate (or whatever the buzz is), I say your courage is to be commended.

[luvinfanfic]

I was reluctant to bring into this what I do for a living and I hope that all saw it as insight as to where I personally was coming from and nothing else.

I do understand that there are a lot of things out there that could fall under the Darkfic category and so it could be very exhausting to compile a suitable list. I'm not a vanilla girl and believe in the whole of it I'm pretty open minded and normally let people be with their choices as long as they don't put them at my front door. With that said I will bring up once again the description (please know I'm only using it now for an example not to bash or attack, the dead horse has been beaten and...its still dead.). You talk about Brady and Jay and then you add in the disclaimer tags which instantly sounds as if all these things are done to her, maybe they are but from what you stated earlier it sounded as if this wasn't the case. You don't insinuate that there is anyone else in the fic (M/M or Slash) even though I now know there is from your reviews and what you've posted on this board. So if you plan to update the description you may want to add the tags that do belong.

I still can't be okay with what was written, that is my right as writing this story is yours.

Luvinfanfic

"I love the internet but it makes speaking ones mind impossible because everyone hears your voice differently"

[Guest Jaxxy]

[...] I still can't be okay with what was written, that is my right as writing this story is yours.

And you are brave, too,

luvinfanfic

. We

all

deserve to keep and exercise our rights. That's all it's about.

I'm smiling.

[Kip]

To answer luvinfanfic - I see what you are saying about the warnings, and will certainly make the necessary additions to them, I didn't realise I hadn't actually - so thanks. As to the summary: I was determined that no one stumble on something that they weren't expecting to find, hence the original wording. At the same time, I stand by my previous point, I find it quite unreasonable to be 'publicly' castigated for something that someone imagines that I have done... or presumes that I am going to do...

I have no intention of bringing my personal, employment, or family background into any of this - it's my writing that is on show, not me. As for anyone making ungrounded assertions about my character or morals - water off a ducks back, since I know that I have done nothing more than air a contentious topic (and those who matter to me know that as well). I have no control over what those outside my circle may assume, and frankly wouldn't want to - free thinking being the perogative of intelligent people everywhere.

I would like to state for the record though, that while I support free speech, the tone of the two earlier reviews that I deleted were nothing short of offensive, whether intentionally or just in the heat of the moment. Since I didn't feel that what was said had any justification, and the language was inflammatory and unsettling, I exercised my right as the author to delete them. The repostings were less threatening, therefore they are still there - although if you feel, in light of new information, that you wish to retract anything, then I would certainly be happy for you to do so.

If you're not okay with what I've written, then you're not - although I trust that you are actually commenting from an informed viewpoint and not simply making assumptions? Criticisms based on assumptions are rarely accurate and certainly not welcomed by me. I can live with people not liking my writing, although as you would have noticed even if you only went by the reviews, the story seems to be generally well received though.

With regard to the reviews:

Yes, it did unsettle me that a self-confessed pedophile posted a review of the story - however, as the reviewer quite clearly stated that it was having access to material like this (even though he is likely to be disappointed by mine on that score) that stopped him from going out and actually ruining some innocent child's life, I felt it worth leaving the review in place.

I did remove one out of the two reviews from another writer, because the original included an invitation to visit another website - one with strongly worded underage content. I did not want my story to be in any way associated with any of that material, or for anyone to assume I was endorsing it; however I did email that person and politely explain why. It may have looked as if I had edited the review but I don't have that facility, any more than any other author does (I assume).

Clambering down off her soapbox...

'Purr

[Keith Inc.]

I guess there needs to be a rigid definition of Darkfic, but i would expect that to be driven by the mood of the story, not readers' reaction to it.

If it's happysex, then people cruising Darkfic, looking for pervasive angst, necessary death, and all the stuff so many Goths seem to revel in, would the ones offended.

Maybe (Adult, Adult+ and Adult++) need something further? (Socially Unredeemable+++) or (OMG!!!+++) or (Abandon all hope, ye who read beyond...)??

My Virgin&Unicorn story is not something i'd put in Darkfic, as a personal judgment. The sex is happy, the relationships striving to reach and stay upbeat. Except the death at the climax, but i don't think that anyone would find that the salient detail, so i'd think it a disappointment if someone surfing Darkfic read it. Although plenty of people are absolutely squicked by the topic, the subject, and the fandom it's written in. I even got GAFFed for it.

I still can't be okay with what was written, that is my right as writing this story is your

Luvinfanfic, i don't think anyone is saying or expects that you, or anyone, has to be okay with the content. And like Jaxxy, i appreciate what it must take to post a dissenting view in such a thread, after all that's gone above. I guess the question is finding a disposition that serves the greatest number in the best way.

[luvinfanfic]

I would like to state for the record though, that while I support free speech, the tone of the two earlier reviews that I deleted were nothing short of offensive, whether intentionally or just in the heat of the moment. Since I didn't feel that what was said had any justification, and the language was inflammatory and unsettling, I exercised my right as the author to delete them. The repostings were less threatening, therefore they are still there - although if you feel, in light of new information, that you wish to retract anything, then I would certainly be happy for you to do so.

I do not feel inclined to retract anything. I felt it. I said it. And to retract would make one think I have changed my views on this.

I can not bring myself to read any of this because the description alone bothers me and if you're saying the description does not explain the exact content of your story then why write it as you did? Shock value? Hits? Reviews?

As I brought up earlier it looks as if the sexual acts listed in your description are done to the child. If that's not true does it bother you that people are opening your story because they believe they are or turning away because of it?

Luvinfanfic

[Keith Inc.]

If that's not true does it bother you that people are opening your story because they believe they are or turning away because of it?

It's a continuing complaint on the forum that readers review a story and show surprise that it has exactly the content that was in the summary.

Others do review to express disappointment that something that wasn't in the summary also wasn't in the story.

People apparently skip reading the summary all the damned time. Not sure if they only read the adult warning, or number of reviews or how they choose what to read, but it ain't necessarily the author's effort to warn/advise/invite.

Which is disappointing, since the things are so hard to write.

[Guest Agaib]

I don't think darkfic is a description of content, per se. Instead I think it would be better described by the tone and color of the story. Admittedly, certain topics can be difficult to write realistically without it being "darkfic" but I don't' think that we should start restricting categories based off of content tags.

[Kip]

I do not feel inclined to retract anything. I felt it. I said it. And to retract would make one think I have changed my views on this.

I can not bring myself to read any of this because the description alone bothers me and if you're saying the description does not explain the exact content of your story then why write it as you did? Shock value? Hits? Reviews?

That's perfectly fine with me - you're completely entitled to your opinion, but what I'm saying is that the correct place to air these opinions is in here in the forum, and not on the review pages, because as you admit yourself, you have not actually read one word of the story. For all you know I could be really lousy at synopses...

Why write the synopsis like that? Because it's damn hard to fit something at all accurate, but that does not spell out the whole plot, in so few words...

If my synopsis stopped even one person from inadvertently opening the story and finding the content offensive, then it worked, didn't it? If people want to read something then they will - I've passed over a few dire synopses and found marvellous well written tales (though, sadly, also some not-so).

Let me put it to you like this - if I tell you that someone has written about death, misery, rape, vengeance, murder, incest, infanticide, slavery, religious intolerance, among a whole load of other things - is your immediate impulse going to be to pick it up and read it?

I'm guessing that most people would be saying 'definitely not' (or something similar) at this point.

Okay, fine. What if I then tell you that this is a global best seller, followed by millions? Does that change your opinion at all? All those people can't be wrong, can they? Surely this must have something of value to offer?

Okay, a few real people have actually been harmed and even killed because of the content ... but even so, it's gripping... attempts have been made to ban it, mostly unsuccessful, and I understand that some people let their children read it...

Shocked? Well, who wouldn't be? Who would read anything like that?

I did, and I can almost hear people out there chanting something along the lines of 'Yes - that just shows what sort of pervert this person must be, we were SO right!'...

Actually millions of people just like me (and quite unlike me too) have read it, and there are more people picking it up and eagerly absorbing every word every day. Chances are you already have too... I am of course referring to the Old Testament - of which I am not a fanatical devotee, but I do enjoy a good smiting...

It's all in the description. I could have described my story as the 'grim tale of three badly shattered people finding each other in a cruel world...' and if you'd read it and discovered that you didn't agree with my description, then you'd still be writing in... though if I had omitted to mention the abuse aspect, I would feel that people would have more grounds for complaint.

I've listened to what you have said, given you the benefit of an open mind, and even acted on some of your suggestions (amended the warnings and the synopsis). Frankly - please, DON'T read my story - and I would respectfully ask that you do not post any more unfounded reviews on my column, because that is there for people who HAVE read it.

thank you so much for your time, and I wish you all the best in the future

'Purr

[DemonGoddess]

Gotta say, I agree wholeheartedly with Keith about the summaries. That certainly is a factor for me even clicking a story link. If the story describes via its tags something I'm not interested in, I DON'T read it. It can and should be that simple.

As a reader, I rarely review. When I do it's not much of one other than I liked what I read, and generally pointing out something I particularly liked about a chapter or something.

As a mod, however, people may in fact see a review from me, or any other mod, pointing out something that needs correction. That's different than reading the story, and has not a damn thing to do with it. Having said that, I can also say that AS A MOD, if I find I cannot be objective and impartial in a particular for instance, I defer it to someone else. It's the only way to do it, really. So, for example, with some objections I've seen raised with Kip's story (and there really haven't been that many) because it's subject matter I find I cannot be objective about, inquiries have been sent to other mods to handle.

[Guest Jaxxy]

I don't think darkfic is a description of content, per se. Instead I think it would be better described by the tone and color of the story. [...]

I guess there needs to be a rigid definition of Darkfic, but i would expect that to be driven by the mood of the story, not readers' reaction to it.

Thanks,

Agaib

and

Keith Inc.

, for putting this into the words I was trying to find. Really, it's one word: Mood.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean this is the "OMG, FINAL WERDZ", but it is what was on the tip of my tongue. With some gum.

[Guest Jaxxy]

Just a happy little thing that I feel is relevant to everyone's thoughts here:

We've just gotten a new Advertiser (glory!) whose website is dedicated to showcasing literature that represents the realities of child abuse and the like -- the best part is that it's written by a bunch of fan fiction writers! I'd post the link, but that'd be a spoiler. Besides, when you see the banner up (which it will be as soon as the contribution comes in), you should do them the honor of visiting them through it, so they can see your interest reflected in their click-throughs.

I had to share, because I feel this little 'click' in my spirit, knowing we're on the brink of doing the

impossible

-- learning to work together. Another, starker side of things, that also illustrates the therapy to be found in all sorts of creative writing. And we get to promote it!

[luvinfanfic]

That's perfectly fine with me - you're completely entitled to your opinion, but what I'm saying is that the correct place to air these opinions is in here in the forum, and not on the review pages, because as you admit yourself, you have not actually read one word of the story. For all you know I could be really lousy at synopses...

I have NOT posted another review to your story, I brought it here to discuss it (as requested).

And no I haven't read the story and believe I've been discussing the description quite openly. By reading your synopsis/description you make it sound like it is a story about a man doing, anal, fisting...with a 5year old girl. Is it or is it not accurate because other than a couple of codes/tags you just recently put up that is how it reads? This is what I was trying to get at in my last post.

I hope to hear from the author.

Luvinfanfic

I will be offline until tomorrow

Edited August 25, 2008 by luvinfanfic

[Guest Jaxxy]

It's a continuing complaint on the forum that readers review a story and show surprise that it has exactly the content that was in the summary.

Others do review to express disappointment that something that wasn't in the summary also wasn't in the story.

People apparently skip reading the summary all the damned time. Not sure if they only read the adult warning, or number of reviews or how they choose what to read, but it ain't necessarily the author's effort to warn/advise/invite.

Which is disappointing, since the things are so hard to write.

Agreed -- I think a good part of this problem is a measure of complacency in both some Readers'

and

Authors' behaviors. Certainly, Story-page Summaries, Codes, Ratings and Warnings need to best represent the key points of the Story (which

are

difficult to capture in a few words, to be sure), but also, Readers need to do more than skim what the Author has tried (presumably, their best) to communicate.

Though it's not a hard rule (offhand, I can't see how it would be enforcable), I very much appreciate Authors who take the time to write their own summaries at the tops of the first chapters of their Stories -- it seems a "best fiction practice".

I might suggest that you guys try spread the word amongst yourselves, by way of polite reviews that request a more definite overview of the Story on page one, with a brief explanation as to the good of it. (This idea is at least somewhat indicated in the TOS, where it says, "I will make a reasonable effort to police myself while visiting this site.")

As I (perhaps tiresomely) like to say, we

are

in this together, so we should consider our companions' situations whenever possible.