What do you do with a cannon Sue?

[ChrisCross]

So, I was plugging away on my Captain America/Bucky fic (movie not comics) and I hit a point where it could not be avoided, I had to describe Peggy Carter. I love Peggy, she rocks my sox, but if you tabulate all the things she can do, the unlikelyness of her being in the military, and the position of her in the cannon as the unbearably hot love interest, she is indeed a Sue. I can decrease her Sue-ness by cutting her romantic lead position, but I cannot make her any less awesome, any more likely to have been in the military in the 1940's, or change her generally Sue-like nature without tampering with cannon. So my question is this: Is it better to leave the Cannon Sue alone, or change a Cannon Character beyond recognition to eliminate the Sue in my story?

[RogueMudblood]

I suppose the question to ask is how necessary is she to your plot? If she's not fundamental, skim over her. If you need her in the story, then let her position in the story dictate her character.

[ChrisCross]

Later she is pretty pivotal in getting the main characters to the places they need to be, and may become an implied love interest for Steve. I had a friend suggest she start out looking all Sue, and then show her flaws later as the first person POV puts her nearer to my narration. I could emphasize her Sue-ness in a way that makes it clear I know she is a Sue... I just don't want to get slammed for having a Sue.

[DemonGoddess]

Why would you get slammed for her sueness, when she was written in the movie that way? She's still a canon character for the movie, despite the sue characteristics.

[Barbayat]

She might have some sue characteristics but a lot less than Captain America or his friend, if you think about it. She does not get away with everything, while she is attractive and assigned to special project, she has not a military rank, she is an agent and she obviously has not much authority. Yes, considering that time it is unlikely she is there but that is about the extent of special privileges she has.

Peggy gets flag from that guy who sexually harrasses her, Tommy Lee Jones characters immediately insuniates that she did what she did because she had a crush, she only gets more respect from him afterwards. Even then she still gets promoted as the insecure wanna be girlfriend. Yes, she gets some action scenes and cheap one liners "You are late" but if she is one thing is weak character presented as a supposedly strong female lead.

So honestly, how is she a sue? Because she is good looking and the Captain has her eyes on her and Bucky is heading for the whambulance as she is the first woman to not look at him?

[ChrisCross]

The scene I am having issues with is the beginning of the taxi chase scene, I'm trying to use as much data from the film crew and actors as I can to increase the connections, because a subplot fic with an non cannon pair is hard to pull off without separateing from the original. The actress who played Agent Carter said "She's like Ginger Rogers. She can do anything the Captain does, backwards and in heels." I want her to be a strong, capable woman, because i would hate to lose the spirit of Peggy Carter. I just worry that her innate uber coolness makes her slightly, (although, you are right, not extremely) sueish. The main sequence I worry about in this case is right after Steve clears the building.

What I want it to say is "The first thing he saw as he left the shop was Peggy, aiming her gun at a taxi racing straight at her. Without thinking he pushed her out of danger. “I had him!” was her outraged cry. He winced, thinking that was something he had probably said to Bucky more than once, to preserve masculine pride. Only, when she said it, she was likely stating a fact. Peggy Carter was a crack shot with nerves of steel, and she could do anything the recruits were taught, better, backwards and blindfolded. She proved it once on an obstacle course by doing the whole track that way, in her skirt and heels. It was unreal, like she had super-powers. Honestly, as he ran off after the escaping taxi to pursue Erskine’s killer, he was also running away from her; she was one scary lady if you irritated her. He hoped she would calm down when he caught the spy."

I think this captures the innate Sueness in a way that makes it a non obstacle in the story. I only truely dislike Sues that break well established facets of the fandom or meme. By giving Steve an inner monolog that indicates he acnoledges and maybe even fears her sueness, if not her, it lightens the load a bit. Also later she gets some egg on face scenes...but that is a bit of a spoiler.

[camp30]

Don't do one, is my soulution. Why rewrite what's already been done to death? What's the point?

[Barbayat]

The actress who played Agent Carter said "She's like Ginger Rogers. She can do anything the Captain does, backwards and in heels."

Megan Fox said her character in Transformers is an extremly strong, well-written female lead (in case you haven't seen it, she is mostly a sex object). That statement does not make sense in context of the movie. She clearly can not do anything. She is supposedly a strong character. That scene you mention with the car is if you look at it for what is actually happening a good example how pathetic that character is written.

Yeah, she might have shot the guy in the car - however, she would have been dead or at least really badly injured if the Captain had not pushed her out of the way. Cause the car would still have run her over. Shooting the guy would not have also stopped the car. Unless of course we find out she is super girl in disguise. But I doubt she is, even if the actress desperately wants to feed in that oh my aren't I playing such a strong female character delusion.

Peggy tries to come off as cool, but she really is acting insecure, stupid and while she does not get called out every instance, she does get called out. When she does something risky or dumb, she is saved by Captain America. Don't be blinded by the "Oh cool she shot the guy and told the cap off for saving life" school of distraction.

She is a sue if you define a sue as a badly written character.

Not that I find her that annoying, I just don't really care about her and she has not that much of presence.

[ChrisCross]

Camp 30, i am actually trying somthing new-ish. I am writing the whole thing as a subtext fic, where no visable bits of plot change, whole sections of quotes are used, but dramaticaly changing the inner monologues and subtexts to totally alter the whole thing. This is a creative challenge, to use only discriptive prose to alter a static plotline. It has not been "done to death", yes there are a ton of Cap/Buck fics, but most rely on the author freeing themselves of all pretense at cannon. And due to Carter's promanent apearance, I cannot really leave her out.

Barbayat, please go pick up a history book. The fact that she is a British female of Rank in the military working in America is precicely the kind of "how the heck did you get here?" that the original Sue had from her age. The fact that she isn't reduced to the coffee fetching office sexpot like the blond Cap gets kissed by, is akin to the original Sue's unlikely garnering of respect from cannon characters. That TLJ makes crude comments is a statement of his dedication to accuracy, not her lack of worth. And please refer to the final battle sequence in the last factory. She fights quite well, is indeed a crack shot, and in that whole sequence is in heels. Yes, it is unrealistic of Ms Atwell to claim Peggy could do *everything* the Cap can do, but she did quite a bit that would be hard in normal conditions, under greater stress and in impractical footgear. I dare you to hit a moving target aprox 10 yards away with a WWII pistol in a pencil skirt and heels. And as for being willing to die to get the shot? Anybody who would face certain death for a chance to stop an assasin's escape with classified super soldier serum qualifies for the descriptor "nerves of steel", and probably "selfless" and "heroic". Although I must thank you for your comments, your insistance that these qualities do not add up to a Sue, due to your lack of historical or military knowledge has convinced me that I can proceed without changing her Sue-ness, for the whiners won't even see it.

[Barbayat]

Did you even attempt to understand what I was talking about? Your reply has nothing to do with what I am talking about. And your added insults on top of that, makes it pretty clear you are not seriously looking for advice. So nevermind ...

[Kurahieiritr]

When anyone writes a fandom tale, they should stick to the canon characterization intended by the original creator of the Universe involved. Whether the character is a Mary Sue, or Gary Stu ceases to matter in the long run. Fandom readers only read because they adore the canon characters. They read plots and tales that go beyond the original creator's efforts specifically because they desire to play longer with the characters they adore. Staying canon can be tougher to accomplish. Many fan fiction writers ignore the canon traits the original creator gave the characters. When that happens, the characters are no longer part of the originally published, iconic series/movie/books. So what is the point of writing an original character and slapping a known name onto them? I always thought such tactics amount to disrespect for the original creator, or worse, cheating.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Kurahieiritr

[DemonGoddess]

just pointing out to you all, that canon is the spelling you need. CANNON is a weapon.

[Kurahieiritr]

just pointing out to you all, that canon is the spelling you need. CANNON is a weapon.

A: I cannot believe I typed cannon instead of canon. *head desk* Thank you for alerting me to my unintentional screw up. ROFL. It was easy enough to correct. Proof positive that everyone makes dumb typos.