Organization for Transformative Works

[PurplePopple]

I was curious what the maintainers of AdultFanFiction.Net thought of The Organization for Transformative Works. They're trying to create new face to the fan fiction community, to replace FanFiction.Net in the media's eye. They are also billing themselves as an archive created by fandom, for fandom. Hector Rashbaum wrote a critique here that is not so happy about it. I haven't seen many references to AdultFanFiction.Net in the comments and the research they've done dating back to May of this year. As you've guys have been around a long time and seem to average 100,000 unique American visitors a month, as you've dealt with adult content issues, I'm sort of surprised not to see anyone I recognize from the AFF.Net involved with the project. It seems like, if they wanted to succeed, you should have at least been consulted... but I don't quite know if they did.

But yeah, are you guys having any plans to work with them or have any of your staff members volunteered to work with them?

[EveKnight75]

The four head mods had left roughly a month ago. Right now, the entire staff is busy with re-organizing the site, bringing the FAQs back up, fixing bugs, and re-organizing the remaining staff.

It's a huge number of tasks that involve the entire site's staff at this point - forum staff included.

The only one who can involve the site in this organization would be the owner, and she's got her hands full right now.

However, some of us may be able to volunteer for the organization as individuals. Once I get some free time, I'll check it out. If Jaxxy has the time and interest, she'll be able to check it out as well.

I think the main long-running issue is that AFF is trying to duck under the government's radar. OTW may be able to protect fanfiction, but would they be able to protect adult content? When it comes to AFF, a lot of us are more worried about being shut down due to adult content rather than due to copyright issues. The US government may be able to approach the copyright issue rationally, but the moment anything adult-rated comes into play, they throw hissy fits and yell "Think of the children!" - which we do with the consent forms.

[PurplePopple]

The four head mods had left roughly a month ago. Right now, the entire staff is busy with re-organizing the site, bringing the FAQs back up, fixing bugs, and re-organizing the remaining staff.

I read that on the main page.

The only one who can involve the site in this organization would be the owner, and she's got her hands full right now.

I don't think they are likely to ASK AdultFanFiction.Net and considering the site's experience, I'm boggled so to why not. And I don't they'd want to involve the site in anything. They seem to want to reinvent the wheel. :/ I run Fan History Wiki and part of their proposal involved creating a new Fan History Wiki. Mine's got over 6,400 pages. (This includes a page about AdultFanFiction.Net which if any of the mods ever want to update to make more accurate, I'd love the help with.) There were people who commented about other archives which have dealt with issues that were ignored. Repeatedly. I can't think of a single archivist they approached themselves asking for assistance. If they really wanted to make their archive the new face of fan fiction for the media, why not utilize people who run highly successful archives already. You know what I mean?

I think the main long-running issue is that AFF is trying to duck under the government's radar. OTW may be able to protect fanfiction, but would they be able to protect adult content?

I don't think they've even developed a policy regarding what they are going to host. And it's going month five. They're talking about building a legal war chest to protect against all legal challengers. Having run my own archive and seen what people in fandom do, that attitude, and being so open and forward with all the "We're going to protect your stuff! We've got lawyers! We're going to protect fan rights!" just seems... I don't know... vaguely threatening to other archives. Things tend to have a ripple effect, both in fandom and the real world. MySpace had to deal with the pedophile stuff. Then LiveJournal got hit. Now FaceBook is getting hit. And fans when they're grumpy and pissed off can go to TPTB and others to try to get archives in trouble. This happened in the CSI fandom, where some Gil Grissom/Catherine Willows were update at a Gil Grissom/Sara Sidle message board that had Gil Grissom/Sara Sidle friendly spoilers being posted by people nominally connected to the show. Those shippers contacted TPTB who ended up forcing changes on the site.

And I can't think of a single archive that's really set itself up to have an adversarial relationship with outside forces like that by talking about challenging all law suits. :/

Getting back to your question, I think, if they hosted adult content, they would use their legal war chest to try to protect it.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

[Guest Jaxxy]

Old topic, but I've been researching FanLib and The Organization for Transformative Works quite a bit, lately. I think this topic deserves to be revisited, as it never really "took off" in the first place. I'd love it if those of you who have been even mildly concerned about/interested in this type of thing -- FanFic going in-your-face, "I dare you to sue us!" public -- would weigh in, and we could openly discuss our views.

I think a good open talk about these kinds of efforts/paths/causes on this Forum would be incredibly useful; by paying attention to the experiences of establishments such as OTW and FanLib, we can learn from others' mistakes, and not stumble into them ourselves. I'd love us, as a Community (the whole Fan Fiction one, I mean), to be on the same page.

This subject has been discussed widely on LJ -- all over, really -- but It'd be a great thing to know where our particular sub-community stands on the issues of the rapidly-changing face of Fan Fiction.

I never was a Girl Scout, but I do like to be (need to be) prepared. I also make it a priority to know what's going through Members' minds.

B) Thoughts?

[branewurms]

I am somewhat uncomfortable with the OTW, mostly because I would like to see fanfiction and other fanworks eventually accepted as legitimate and legal (so long as profit doesn't come into the picture), but I don't think that the general public is ready for that. (Mostly because I don't think the general public is ready to accept a leather-clad Harry spanking Draco with a cat-o-nine-tails.) I think that shoving this issue into the public eye and demanding to be legitimized like this is risking it blowing up in all of our faces, whether we're involved with the OTW or not. I think they're jumping the gun on this. Publicity is not what fandom needs just yet.

I think they're trying to act preemptively, to prevent significant legal action against fans before it happens, but I think this may just achieve the opposite result of what they're after. The whole business makes me really nervous.

Edited August 31, 2008 by branewurms