what the hell is going on?!

[Guest Madapple]

Hi putaforkinme,

To answer your question, each of the four "head" moderators was assigned specific areas and oversaw the running of the site, including finances, advertising, abuse (plagues, trolls, underagers, other ToS violations), awards, the fiction archive and the main yahoo group.

All monies donated to, or commissioned (via CafePress) were put into an AFF account on Paypal. Hence, when donations are made they are made directly to the Paypal address. The server bill was paid with the paypal account.

The head-mods had a support team of moderators and assistant moderators that assisted in the daily running of the site. So, no, Jaxxy did not have to pay the server bill out of her own pocket, nor does she single handedly run the place. It is truly a team effort.

The issue here, I think, was not specifically about finances, or command structure, and only peripherially about writing. To speak plainly, the issue between both involved parties was for ownership and control of the site.

I am not trying to sweep this situation under the rug, but it is my hope that we can get beyond the fingerpointing and get back to the business of writing and reading fanfiction, reviewing, and playing a few forum games with our adopted online family. That is why we're here afterall.

Thanks.

[putaforkinme]

No, pointing fingers is saying 'Don't send any more money in because the head mods may have stole it!' is pointing fingers, without proof by the way. Until you have proof someone stole, it is stupid to say such a thing.

But my question was this, it is Jaxxy's site, right? Her business so to speak. Who paid from PayPal?

[Shirotaka]

Snarky comment interjection here.

-- Too many chefs spoil the pot.

Shiro

Edited September 6, 2007 by Shirotaka

[Guest Madapple]

The problem in communicating this info, the info about the whole situation, is that you, the members, are receving one-half of the story.

It is really not for you to say whether any of the statements I made are stupid. They are what they are.

Automatic payments are set up from Paypal, from the AFF Paypal account. Member donations go directly into the account. The members who donated or purchased items from the site's CafePress store paid the bill. It was the responsibility of the head mod in charge of the accounting to see that the bill was paid each month, with these funds, and it was, as you may have noticed, because there was never site downtime due to lack of funds. So that former head mod pushed the 'pay' button.

Yes, Jaxxy is the current owner of the site, but the money comes from donations and CafePress commissions, and occasionally Moderator pockets when there is none other to be had. The four head mods, using the structure Jaxxy put in place, took over the site, after what they determined was an excessive absence from her.

Whether or not they were right or wrong is not for me to say. I also don't know the whole story. But the site is now back in Jaxxy's hands and she is attempting to put things back into place.

[Guest Jaxxy]

Thanks for explaining that everything's been a team effort Mad, it really has. I couldn't stand the fact that AFF's Administration was *not* a team effort when I attained ownership in 2005, and did all I could to change that.

But, I feel as if I should say a few things here, as people do have their suspicions about the money. Also, this'll help people understand that I'm not interested in sweeping the allegations of theft under the rug either -- I'll be in pain until I clear my name of this suspicion, truth be told.

I understand that not much could be clear from an outside point of view as to who exactly has handled AFF funds at which time. A glance into the Moderators' Yahoo! Group, many times, would have indicated a level of confusion there as well.

One reason for this is that we have had dozens of advertisers (and hundreds of donors) who contributed to AFF through varying venues in the past -- PayPal (to three different addresses I can think of right now since the end of 2005) and Snail Mail (which has also had at least three different AFF Staff handlers, in different *states*, in my time on board), complete with two different bank accounts. These are only the ones which come to mind straight away.

AFF Treasurers, in general, have been far too many to make sound sense of who-had-what and who-paid-whom and who-transferred-whatnot-to-where in the past. Lots of us have tried our hands at the position (and all, at their times, with well-earned, well-known trust from Staff) -- Ayla, then Apollo, then myself, then Snowfall (with me and all five Chiefs' fingers in the pot on that one), then, apparently, the four ladies I'd left to Administrate for the duration of my inactivity, without Snow, Staff, and largely without myself.

The PayPal records I've just pulled up show that on February 11, 2007 (due to a decision amongst all of us that I was to no longer be the primary PayPal recipient of Advertiser and Donor contributions) show my transfer of $1,332.95 to paypal@adult-fanfiction.org (it looks like the email address on this new AFF PayPal was kougakun@gmail.com, DA's).

Since that time, (I think, still verifying) I've only received two (mistaken) AFF payments to my personal PayPal by advertisers. One was refunded to the Advertiser itself, and the other was reimbursed to the above-mentioned paypal@adult-fanfiction.org PayPal -- I did so, on both occasions, the moment I was aware of the mistakes.

Just as a note, I see that these mistaken payments were to the tunes of about fifteen and forty-five dollars.

PayPal's Payment Sent ID number associated with the $1,332.95 is 0SF96873NT5182418, and the note on the receipt says "Every cent."

If the fact that this was "every cent" (of which I was aware) I'd had of AFF's was in dispute, I'm imagining the issue might've been more productively addressed at a time considerably nearer to February, 2007.

I'll end the number-crunch-y-ness there, as I'm still in the process of compiling every last PayPal transaction I've ever *had* into a spreadsheet, just to quadruple-check I didn't somehow "steal" "well over $1,000", as this appears to be the accusation of some.

As to "How did you check AFF funds with no internet?" Well, since June 1st, I couldn't do it in any grand way -- I was limited to my boyfriend's never-here business laptop and my neighbors' barely-there wireless internet connection. What I *could* do was check to see that my account with Nexcess was current (signing in to Nexcess itself, not AFF's PayPal -- I knew not how much money AFF had accumulated, no matter the claims otherwise). This is all I meant when I said I'd looked after our funds. Also, if I was lucky, my shoddy internet access would let me pop onto the front page of AFF to check the Site News and make sure there wasn't an emergency funds drive, or something similar.

Has this helped?

-- Jaxxy

[Guest Jaxxy]

I just re-read the thread here, and there's something I absolutely ***must*** get off my chest. I tried not to say anything so soon after writing the huge post above, because I don't like to whine or ramble or bore, but it is a physical pain in me that compels me to type this.

It's said above and in many other places that "we are only hearing one (Jaxxy's) side of the story". I hurt every time I see that, and I'll tell you why, though I thought I did before. I can't *stand* looking like I won't shut up about the "big bad meanies who took my bike", but here I go.

I've been typing posts, triple-checking my personal finance accounts, and IMing my booty off for a week, to try to *respond to* and *defend myself from* the allegations that were (and are, and will be) initially made against *me*. The theft, the desertion, the general badness and repeated betrayals of one Jaxxy of AFF: That *is* the other party's side of the story. Another part is that we *said* they'd Own the site if I was not present or visible enough to their liking, when the truth is (I have copies of the agreed-upon instructions) we agreed they would Administrate.

The other "side" was spammed to the public via email, personal websites, MySpaces, demonstrated through mass-destruction of the AFF community's Yahoo! Group material, posted to Site News (front page of AFF), and replaced the ex-staff's Author Profiles on the site itself.

The other party's story is still being hunted out and made to go "poof" as much as possible --- *even though you will not see me attempting to hide the accusations*. The stuff goes "poof" because it is disruptive and negative and I want people to have a good time with AFF, and, as soon as I can see that they have ceased and desisted with the "mudslinging", my News Post on the main site (announcing the hijacking) will, too, be removed.

To sum up and keep it not-so-long: Fact is, I am *heavily* on the defensive and not the offense. If I were, there would be mass-firings, wild claims of my own, and charges pressed, don't you think?

I hope there soon comes a point at which I can stop being a contributing member to these threads that (for better or worse) discuss and re-hash this ridiculously unfortunate drama. I am still trying to find where the line is when it comes to choosing between "not fueling the fires" and "not giving Members any information".

Peace on earth... or else (yes, this is a joke)!

-- Jaxxy

[thirdseat10thdivision]

Alrighty, I gotta put my fifty cents in

*steals the soapbox from Jaxxy and clears her throat*

I understand how everyone is confused and just like Jaxxy I am tired of seeing the "we are only hearing this side or that side" routine.

Now while I love AFF as much as the next person, you all have to see it this way.

Jaxxy is trying to explain the situation without being rude or mean to people. By rights, she doesn't have to answer no questions but she chooses too.

What I find as strange is how when Jaxxy took the site back over, none of the four mods, admitted that they had done wrong.

It wasn't just the fact of the site being taken illegally, it was also the fact that they sat around and did nothing, making and allowing everyone else to do the work for them. Being a mod, isn't just..you do this, or you do that..it is being part of the work.

I sat as I went through the posts and I wondered just how many helpers on this forum was on the scouts group. That's who was suppossed to be doing the site work. Not any member from the site.

I was very upset whenever all the formatting work was done, the four mods, kicked or I should say banned the formatter from the site.

I don't want to speak bad against the four mods, but I find it strange that the day that Jaxxy gets the site back, they jump ship.

Yes, I saw DA's post. In it she doesn't say what they did. She just states she is leaving. Just like they say, we don't know their side of the story but when Jaxxy returned and saw, they ran. That right there should be a warning light.

I am sure that none of the members of AFF appreicate the fact they destroyed the yahoo groups. I just don't know.

What I do know is Jaxxy is frazzled over this whole incident and trying to get reorganized. So let's give it a break...

It's over, they are gone. Jaxxy is trying so let's just push this behind us and go on. I am sure the site will be back to normal within a few days or weeks. It will be back..

In the words of Jaxxy...Can't we all just get along?

*jumps back down off her soap box*

[ladydeathfaerie]

i have, for the majority of the week, been silent on this subject. some of it was to allow my brain to soak up everything that's been going on. some of it has been simply to keep me from responding with something vicious or cruel or just plain wrong. however, i find i can no longer hold my tongue.

i've seen much... MUCH... verbal bashing going on here in the past week. the shit slinging, yes... that's what i said. that's what it has been, has been coming from both sides. as i do not know the whole story, i cannot verify the veracity of either party's words.

however, i take deep and sincere umbrage with any claims that the head mods didn't do a fucking thing. i'm a mod on the main site and i can tell you from personal experience that they did their own work. they didn't rely on others to do it for them. claiming they're lazy is the biggest crock of shit i've seen come through here today.

i've been a member on the site for over four years. in that time, i've seen it fall apart more than once. and, also in that time, i've seen it roar to life again. the reason for that is because the head mods, set in place by Jaxxy herself, did what they were fucking supposed to do. DA literally worked herself into being ill trying to make shitty code work, trying to please everyone when they requested or whined for something to be fixed or to just run the way they wanted it to.

in the past year alone, AFF has run smoother than it ever did. no one has ever thanked the head mods for their work. all they've ever done is bitch and whine and complain. and now they're doing it again.

you know what? i don't care if someone stole this or someone hijacked that. i wasn't in on the decision to take the site. but i do know that i hadn't seen a single post from Jaxxy to even the groups in almost over six months. no offense meant to anyone, but leadership requires that you be there constantly, to watch and supervise and to fucking get your hands dirty. its like raising a child. you can't sit back and watch from afar.

i don't care if you don't like the tone of my post. i don't care if you don't like me. that isn't what i'm here for. i could give a shit one about a popularity contest. i will, however, be blatant enough to give my opinion. and if i damn well have to sit here and sift through yours, you're fucking going to have to show me the same curtesy and read mine.

[Guest Adara]

I haven't been a Mod on the Forum for too long, but I do know that those four mods did do quite a bit of work. It was difficult not to notice, especially when Dark Avenger herself asked for assistance in this very forum.

Many of the Forum members can vouch for that, as many volunteered to help her.

Thirdseat10thdivision, you may feel that Jaxxy does not have to explain herself to us in any way, but I find that when she is indeed accused of having stolen money from my fellow members (Donators) and people who advertise, I say she has a good amount of explaining to do, if this accusation is indeed false.

That money does not belong to anyone nor should it be used for anything but to the community's upkeep. Regardless of whomever owns it. I do not see, how we as a community should in any way, overlook the misuse of it's funding.

So, here's my question, "Where is that missing money? and if that $1,000.00 dollars is accounted for, shouldn't we get proof of that?"

[putaforkinme]

Alrighty, I gotta put my fifty cents in

*steals the soapbox from Jaxxy and clears her throat*

What I find as strange is how when Jaxxy took the site back over, none of the four mods, admitted that they had done wrong.

I don't want to speak bad against the four mods, but I find it strange that the day that Jaxxy gets the site back, they jump ship.

Yes, I saw DA's post. In it she doesn't say what they did. She just states she is leaving. Just like they say, we don't know their side of the story but when Jaxxy returned and saw, they ran. That right there should be a warning light.

How can the four mods say anything? They left the site, remember?

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, there are things I would like to have answered from everyone, including them.

Yeah, you are right, they did jump ship. All four of them as soon as the owner came back. Do you wonder why? I do. Was it because they no longer wished to work for Jaxxxy? Could it be that they got tired of a lot of things that we just don't know about?

[Solaris]

They didn't want to get fired or explain why they did what they did to Jaxxxy, so they quit and fled the site, deleting all the groups(yes, they did delete the groups) but for a couple, without reason. In a way, I would like to know why they didn't try to really get a hold of Jaxxxy to find out where she was or what was going on that was making her not be online during those times. They had her phone number too so there was no excuses in not calling her or that they didn't want to call her because it meant time away from working on the site itself.

Beth

[Leonhart29]

I hope I'm not cutting my own throat here, which is the reason why I have relatively been silent. The thing is folks, we are shit slinging. This isn't helping matters at all. We're in an endless circle of He said / She said and it's not getting us anywhere.

How anyone can say that the majority of the posts on this thread alone are professional is beyond me. There has been name calling (hello school yard), accusations, and double talk. I haven't even wanted to look into this thread as well as a few others because of that. That's not to say that the opinions aren't valid, they are for the most part, and the questions are valid as well. All I'm saying is that when a question has been asked the answer given for the most part has been used as an excuse to bash the 4 former mods which is NEVER a professional reaction.

I love the AFF community, I have done everything I can to become a part of a family, and now that there is strife all I see is it falling apart. DA loved AFF and did everything she could to make it what it is today. She did the coding work, she started the resort of the main site, she worked her ass off with little or no thanks from anyone. What saddens me is that some of you have forgotten that fact because it's so much easier to either sit back and stay silent or "forget" about what has happened before so you don't make waves.

I know I probably just slit my throat and allowed someone to happily piss in the wound by saying this - I just couldn't stay silent any longer. I hope that I didn't - my hope is that you will take this as my opinion and a sad attempt to ask people to sit back, take a deep breath, remember what has happened over the past year, and think damn it! Please - we do need to get along, and belittling, attacking, and slinging the shit isn't doing it.

[putaforkinme]

I still want to know one thing, above all others. You keep saying as does Jaxxy that she did not have access to a computer, but then she claims she checked on the site all the time.

One of these things is not like the others. You can not be both able to check on a website and not be able to contact other people.

What is more, you and Jaxxy keep screaming that no one contacted her. Why did she not contact them?

Jaxxy's story stinks.

I don't know about the other 4, but they are not here to explain themselves.

I will stop with that, but it has been bothering me.

[IceAngel]

Alright I'm tired of this now. Listen everyone, yes there are holes in the stories. No matter who's side you want to be on there are holes. If you're on DA then you'll find problems with Jaxxxy's side. And vice versa if you're with Jaxxxy.

I know everyone is allowed to vent and to tell their side. That's the freedom about this forum. Believe me I'm not tryin to stop that. Childish behaviors like name calling though is wrong to do weither the party can defend him/herself or not. Name calling should not be used.

I even will give my opinion to this matter. I fully agree with what ladydeathfaerie said. I also agree with Adara of Giovanni's question about the money. I also agree with the fact that everyone should tell what happened and not dodge certain questions. I've seen dodging going on. Vague answers and long- never ending comments to the simple questions. Believe me as a First Class BS'er I know all of the tricks that are being used here.

I understand that everyone is worried. Heck I am too. AFF has become like a family to me. I've been around for years now (new to the forum though) and have watched it grow to what it is now. I was there through money woes, through 'review and I'll donate for every review I get' drives (heck I left reviews to stories that I had no freakin idea what was going on). I was here when the whole site crashed. And you know what we pulled through!

I'd be lying if I was to say that I'm not sad that DA is gone. She did so much for us and never wanted anything for it. She worked herself like crazy to get this site going good and took all the shit that people threw at her on the yahoo groups. People would gang up and rant about something minor, and DA would fix it to their liking.

At the same time I think demanding for the 'whole' story is never going to work. Everyone is going to say what has been said over and over again. Look at the previous posts. They all say the same thing over and over. How many pages do we need of the same story? We are only getting one side of the story, unless you contact DA (or want her email pm'ed to you) you are never going to get the complete story. Even right now we're not getting the whole side of one person's story.

Can we stop this now? I'm just as confused and lost as the rest of you, but you know what I've done? I clicked out of the pages of notes for Yu Yu Hakusho stories I was sorting. Went to DNAngel and read stories.

Just go read some good fics. Find challanges that you want to write. Take out your frustration and let your creative juices flow! Write, read.

After all like what others said we're doing nothing more then shit slinging now. And this is not what a community of adults should not be doing.

~Ice~

(Also to put an end to DA's side, if you want a copy of her email, tell me and I'll PM it to you so you know.)

[Leonhart29]

Thank you Ice. I think that's a very good idea.

[putaforkinme]

I would just like Jaxxy's side of the story since she is here. That one glaring discrepancy in Jaxxy's story is driving me nuts.

As for contacting DA, no thanks. I am not interested in the he said/she said thing or anything DA or any other mod has to say. They have their reasons and I don't really care.

I just want to know if Jaxxy was able to be online or not during the time she was gone.

[Ginevra]

I just want to know if Jaxxy was able to be online or not during the time she was gone.

I've just recently joined this forum...apparently just in time to witness the drama.

I think that question was already answered in greater detail than was really necessary in another post. I have been reading AFF off and on for years and have been submitting my own stories for around a year, I believe.

My understanding from all these posts that I have been reading is that Jaxxy had an extended period of time during which she had limited access to the internet. Almost anybody can pop over to a friend's house and check her email or look at something quickly. But, running a large archive like AFF must take a lot of hands-on work. That would most likely require a very reliable connection and quite a bit of time online.

Relationships that involve money and ownership often blow up. Ask anyone who's been through a divorce.

As far as I'm concerned, if Jaxxy is the one who will be taking the bullet if AFF gets into legal trouble, she's entitled to have her name on the letterhead. Right above the bullseye. And she's entitled to protect herself if she thinks someone may be doing something that could result in legal or financial consequences for her.

I did like some of the changes that were being made to AFF just before the transition and am sorry to see them put on hold. I came to the forum because I was following DA's link soliciting help with the category clean ups. I hope they will continue at some point.

Personally, I don't have the balls to sign my name to "owning" something like AFF. I have a family to support and could conceivably lose my job over something like that. I'm sure my husband would lose his part time job at a church. Most of my family and coworkers would certainly be shocked if they saw what I've been posting here.

The internet isn't always anonymous...

[putaforkinme]

Which still begs the question, why did she not contact the mods? Any mod? How long does it take? Two minutes?

[Melrick]

I’ve been reading accusations, foot stamping and finger pointing, as well as “my dad could beat your dad” style of arguments. I honestly couldn’t care less who stole what website from whom. Hamburglar could have stolen it from Ronald McDonald for all I care. What I do know is that for a long, long time the site seemed stagnant, nothing was really being done with it, no changes being implemented, no improvements being made. I’m talking from the perspective of an outsider, by the way, not as someone who had the faintest idea of what was going on behind the scenes. I didn’t know – or cared – who owned the site before, and I didn’t know that someone else now apparently owned it. What I did see was that the site was finally moving forwards, things were being done, improvements were being made. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to work with the antiquated system the website is based on, so any improvements were a great thing and a credit to the person/people fiddling with the code.

So is the website now going to move back into stagnation?

As far as missing money is concerned, I haven’t the faintest clue if there’s money missing or not, and to be honest, neither really does anyone else, it seems. Embezzlement is a very serious accusation, so the very first step should be to prove that there is definitely money missing, and then things can go from there. But what is absolutely crystal clear to me is that not one single solitary cent should be donated to this site by ANYONE until a proper, trustworthy system is in place for handling the incoming money. Because even if no one did steal money this time, clearly it’s rather easy for someone to do just that in the future. I realise there’s no such thing as a guarantee in life anymore, and that when someone donates to a site like this, it’s done so based on trust, but the system in place at the moment seems rather a shambles and certainly inspires absolutely no trust at all in me.

Now I can go back to keeping my thoughts to myself.

[Venomspyte]

Alrighty, I gotta put my fifty cents in

*steals the soapbox from Jaxxy and clears her throat*

I understand how everyone is confused and just like Jaxxy I am tired of seeing the "we are only hearing this side or that side" routine.

Now while I love AFF as much as the next person, you all have to see it this way.

Jaxxy is trying to explain the situation without being rude or mean to people. By rights, she doesn't have to answer no questions but she chooses too.

It wasn't just the fact of the site being taken illegally, it was also the fact that they sat around and did nothing, making and allowing everyone else to do the work for them. Being a mod, isn't just..you do this, or you do that..it is being part of the work.

I sat as I went through the posts and I wondered just how many helpers on this forum was on the scouts group. That's who was suppossed to be doing the site work. Not any member from the site.

I was very upset whenever all the formatting work was done, the four mods, kicked or I should say banned the formatter from the site.

I don't want to speak bad against the four mods, but I find it strange that the day that Jaxxy gets the site back, they jump ship.

Yes, I saw DA's post. In it she doesn't say what they did. She just states she is leaving. Just like they say, we don't know their side of the story but when Jaxxy returned and saw, they ran. That right there should be a warning light.

I am sure that none of the members of AFF appreicate the fact they destroyed the yahoo groups. I just don't know.

What I do know is Jaxxy is frazzled over this whole incident and trying to get reorganized. So let's give it a break...

It's over, they are gone. Jaxxy is trying so let's just push this behind us and go on. I am sure the site will be back to normal within a few days or weeks. It will be back..

In the words of Jaxxy...Can't we all just get along?

*jumps back down off her soap box*

What I find as strange is how when Jaxxy took the site back over, none of the four mods, admitted that they had done wrong.

Yes, I saw DA's post. In it she doesn't say what they did. She just states she is leaving. Just like they say, we don't know their side of the story but when Jaxxy returned and saw, they ran. That right there should be a warning light.

[putaforkinme]

What would you like them to admit to doing wrong?

[Venomspyte]

Sorry, new to this. My friends told me about what was going on and being the insanely curious person (the kind that gawks at a roadside accident) I decided to mosey over.

What I find amusing(?), curious is the Shadow (sorry can't remember the rest of your name) statement

my one failing (or one that I'll admit to ) is I try to see the other side of the coin.

"Yes, I saw DA's post. In it she doesn't say what they did. She just states she is leaving. Just like they say, we don't know their side of the story but when Jaxxy returned and saw, they ran. That right there should be a warning light.

Why on earth would you expect them to remain is completely beyond me. And not choosing sides, but it seems to me it's clear you have some sorta bias against them. And you seem to know a lot about what went down inside the mod group, unless you were a mod yourself?

But anyway, back to my point.

If the mods ran like you said, my impression would have probably been that they choose not to Jaxxy's return rather than make a huge stink.

And yet, there's a big, pile of stink.

That Solar person says the mods shoulda called Jaxxy. And she's correct. They could have called.

But on the other hand, what was preventing Jaxxy from calling her mods?

I'm playing the devil's advocate here.

By saying they could have called Jaxxy, it implies a recipical arrangement. Which means, why couldn't Jaxxy call? I mean, if I was the owner of a site and dropped out of sight for several months, I would have damn well called to at least check in. I wouldn't wait until a crisis blew up in my face.

Like this.

My take is, if you have time to check on Nexcess, then you have time to send or answer an email. It doesn't take much, just a quick 'Yo, I'm here'.

My grandmother used to always say, 'Chile, ju betta remember, whoever shouts d'loudest u'sle got da mos' t'hide. Dey git dey frens and dey go t'whoopin' n hollarin'. Dat way, nobody hears t'udder fellow."

My take is, there's a lot of whoopin' n hollarin'' goin' on.

Maybe it's time for it to stop.

[putaforkinme]

Yeah, I will stop asking Jaxxy why she could not drop an email to anyone while online, but Opps! She did not have access to the internet.

Tell you what I am going to do instead. I am going to go back to the main site and each and every time I see a new advertiser banner come up, I will click on it. Then I will let them know that the owner of AFF.net can not make up her mind whether she was or was not online for several months.

We will never know the whole thing, I don't want to. But it annoys me to no end how Jaxxy changed her story to suit her different claims.

[EveKnight75]

There had been discontent brewing between Jaxxy and the head mods for a very long time. The lack of communication between the two parties, the missing funds, then Jaxxy's sudden return was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I don't know who's responsible for the missing funds. I'm not going to lay blame on either party for the lack of communication. It's my job to remain neutral here and to help keep the peace.

I do know that the mods left of their own free will because they had been fed up with Jaxxy for a long time and no longer wished to work with her. It's not so suspicious if it's been a long time in the making.

[Venomspyte]

The analogy of the bike was a interesting one.

I watch a lot of court shows. There's always one about a plantiff claiming the defendant stole their property.

Once the facts are laid out, the gist of the case is that the plantiff leaves his or her valuable property with the defendant, saying they'll be back to pick it up in two weeks (or two months).

At the end of that time period (oh noes!) no plantiff.

The defendant makes numerous attempts to contact plantiff. But sadly the plantiff doesn't answer.

After a period of time, lets say about six months of no return calls or email, the defendent grows tired and either sells, toss or takes over the property.

And then, don-don-donnnnn!, the plantiff returns for their property.

I erroneously thought, until I saw those episodes, that the defandant had a RIGHT to maintain or keep the plantiff property. Imagine to my surprise that the law considers such things as abandoned property.

I always thought that if it belonged to someone, and they claim they never relinquished their rights, sometimes the law considers their claim void because they made no effort to retrieve to make arrangement to contact the holder of their property.

Someone mentioned that there's always two sides to every story.

Getting rid of the other side, not allowing them to say anything in return, must make Jaxxy's side that much stronger?