Keeping them Stupid

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I read a comic strip on deviantART the other day about a real life situation that happened in a book store.

Here it be:

Girl: Why?

Mom: Because it's too big.

Girl: [brother] is buying a book that big. It's not very expensive.

Mom: [brother] is a boy. You're a girl. And girls shouldn't read big books like that. It's too thick. Boys don't like girls who read thick books. You want boys to like you, don't you?

The girl went and put the book away.

The artist, Shinga, got the info on said situation from this LiveJournal post made a few days earlier.

What pisses me off the most about this is not the situation, or even that people still believe this bullshit. No, it's the fact that I'm not surprised and it's not that unbelievable that a woman would say this to her daughter in this day and age.

[Guest echtrae]

And thus another child is scarred for a life of ignorance.

[Guest Yhitzak]

I can't remember which college campus this happened on, but some guys set up a table with signs saying, "End Women's Sufferage." (It should be stated that these guys weren't *actually* trying to end women's sufferage, but they were trying to make a point about how stupid people can be.) Hundreds of women approached them, signed their petition, and said things like, "Oh this is horrible! We have to end this suffering right *now*!" Bloody shameful, as funny as it is on a base level.

And nikolatesla1 is right (again). It's not just girls who are being told that reading isn't cool. Check out the latest statistics for failure rates by gender in elementary to high school level education. You'll find that boys are consistently falling more and more behind. (Not just in comparison to girls, but overall.)

Not that I want to create a battle of the sexes here (not by a longshot; I personally hate that battle), but this situation is -sadly- not unique to girls. As cosmopolitan as we all like to think of ourselves, the Twenty-First Century Population, we're still in the damned dark-ages when it comes to gender expression and gender roles.

You want to talk about the revocation of women's rights (or the de-evolution thereof), let's talk about the Eagle Forum and Phyllis Schlafly. This is a woman who has spent her entire active life fighting (however she wishes to perceive it) against women's rights.

Here's the link to Phyl's biography:

http://www.eagleforum.org/misc/bio.html

[ZombieDuke]

I was reading this review for The Pussy Cat Dolls: The Search for the Next Doll in the Georgia Straight (I was reading it in a dentist office) and one of the female contestants said that "This is a big step forward for all women."

...Somehow this makes me miss the SpiceGirls

As for spelling, it isn't just in the States. Canada has some really serious problems too. I honestly think we really need to overhaul the entire education system so that the learning is more focused on the students, rather then trying to shove everything down the students mouth and expect them to automatically repeat everything they just learned. (yeah, can you tell I didn't have much fun at school?)

EDIT: Then again, if you have stuff like this, is it really all that suprising?

[Guest echtrae]

I can't remember which college campus this happened on, but some guys set up a table with signs saying, "End Women's Sufferage." (It should be stated that these guys weren't *actually* trying to end women's sufferage, but they were trying to make a point about how stupid people can be.) Hundreds of women approached them, signed their petition, and said things like, "Oh this is horrible! We have to end this suffering right *now*!" Bloody shameful, as funny as it is on a base level.

Actually, I remember them doing that on the Man's Show.

[StoryJunkie]

there are shallow people in every generation.

Individuals make choices on an individual basis, and a general survey would only cover a certain percentage of opinion and fact. Monkey see, monkey do, is what I find. It is difficult to dredge ourselves out from the sludge that tries so hard to take us under. I try to treat each person that I meet with dignity, but I fear the bad ones make me want to imbibe once again. IMBIBE UNTIL I'M BUT A SHADOW OF MY FORMER SELF!

Either that, or sprout a few more gray hairs. Death looks good sometimes.

[Guest Agaib]

Unfortunately the social gaps between students is widening. From My personal experiences I feel as if kids are separating into two groups. Kids who think its good to learn, and kids who don't. I'm not saying this is like preps vs. nerds. Its much more deep than that, but I honestly thing that pretty soon we're going to have basically two societies. One formed from the kids who were taught to value education and one formed by the kids who's parents didn't bother. It disturbs Me greatly.

There are still a surprising number of girls who go to college just to look for Mr Degree just because thats what their parents taught them to value more than a real college education.

[ZombieDuke]

There are still a surprising number of girls who go to college just to look for Mr Degree just because thats what their parents taught them to value more than a real college education.

Are you serious!? My god... that's just... just... insane...

I'm suddenly very scared for future generations.

[Guest Serenanna]

Excuse me a moment . . . Gearing up for a rant here.

::headdesk::

Why? Why after so many years of mothers trying to encourage the growth of their daughters, more women enrolling in colleges than ever, and women getting into leadership positions in this country and elsewhere, why do antiquated thoughts like this still get perpetuated? I thought the thought of keeping women uneducated went away by the time we got the right to vote? Is this really what men want? A woman that's inferior to them to mind the house and breed babies?

. . .

I sincerely hope not.

Even in the 1400's in Venice some women were allowed access to education, courtesans. Why would the men of this city allow supposed immoral women more access to libraries and scholarly works than their own wives? Perhaps it was because an education can make a woman more desirable, being able to keep up with the men if not surpass them. If an education is attractive to some men then why do thoughts like what this woman told her daughter still, well, breed?

Education in all forms should be embraced, regardless of gender. There are too many people in this nation that cannot even speak proper English let alone read and write it. All you have to do is stumble over any extremely popular section of fics here to see the murder of our language in progress. I am not saying I am perfectly typofree and grammer checked, but I am a woman with an education that is not afraid to use it! I am proud to be smart! If it makes me single the rest of my life, so be it!

If I ever have children, regardless of sex, they will get an education and they will learn whatever they want. It was the way my parents raised me, with respect and encouragement. I can only hope that I am not the only woman out there that feels this way.

Sere

[Leonhart29]

As a mother of two girls in grade school and Jr High here in Texas I can tell you a few things. One - I encourage my children to learn more than what the schools are teaching them. All of us are avid journal writers, all of us read and most of the time if the TV is on it's for back ground noise not an entertainment source.

Let's face it - in America the only thing the schools and our esteemed (note sarcasm) leader seem to care about is that they pass those stupid standardized tests... I sat down and took the test with my girls this year and I can't tell you how disappointed I was to find that not only were the questions designed NOT to make the children think on their own and USE the knowledge they had gained - but that some of the questions were WRONG! The really sad part.... most of the kids got those questions right by the answer key. I asked how this could have happened and the teacher (after I proved that I was right) said that the questions were put together by other teachers and they used various text books... Once again it seems that if it's in print it must be right - BULL SHIT!

And this brings me to my second point which has already been touched on. Honestly - it is the parent's fault that this is happening. Sure, our school boards and politicians are the ones that decide what the kids should learn and when, but we as parents put them in their positions and we allow them to keep those positions. Too many parents now a days are letting the system educate their kids and take a hands off approach to their children’s education. I myself have always taken a keen interest in what my kids are learning. It's why I moved them out of public schools and into a small school 40 miles from home in the middle of a cotton field. I want more for them. You can find me down at the school at least 3 days a week talking with their teachers and taking an active interest in what's going on - which is key to their success.

It is sad to see so many people who have gone through our education system and still come out as ignorant as when they went in. The challenge is gone and so is the drive to become something more than an empty headed girl who needs a husband to take care of her - or a hard working man in some menial back breaking job because that's all they could get. It's horrible that kids who WANT to learn can't because their parents are just BELOW the poverty line and therefore make too much money for student aid.

I can understand on some level why the woman in the comic might have said what she did. Why get someone's hopes up for a good solid education when you can't afford it?

[Charging Handles Forward]

It's not just girls who are discouraged from reading and learning in this country, Pix, it's all children.  I play an on-line game called Runescape, and the average age of the kids on there is about 14.  And the American kids can't spell and have the poorest grammar, plus they are mostly extremely ignorant.  If I make any kind of intellectual reference the people most likely to get it are those from other countries playing the game.  It makes me sad.  Because ignorance is a choice, while stupidity is not.  I can forgive the idiots more easily than the ignorant, because if you're stupid you were born that way.  It's like you have a club foot or something. But to deliberately choose to be ignorant?  That is offensive to me.  But then, much of our American culture(such as it is) is offensive to me anymore.  That we live in a society rampant with ignorance and fear is nauseating.  That we happily perpetuate it in our children - that is unforgivable.

"ITS NOT JUST GIRLS WHO R DISCOURAEGD FROM R3ADNG AND LEARNNG IN THES COUNTRY PIX ITS AL CHILDR3N!!!11 OMG WTF LOL I PLAY AN ON-LIEN GME CALAD RUNESCAEP AND DA AEVRAEG AEG OF TEH KIDS ON THEYRE SI ABOUT 14!!11!!1 LOL AND TEH MERICAN KIDS CANT SP3L AND HAEV DA POREST GRMMAR PLUS THEY R MOSTLEY 3XTREM3LEY IGNORANT!1!!! WTF LOL IF I MAEK ANY KIND OF INT3L3CTUAL R3F3RENCE DA PAOPLE MOST LIEKLEY 2 GET IT R THOSA FROM OTHER COUNTREIS PLAYNG TEH GME!11111 OMG WTF IT MAEKS M3 SAD!1!11111 OMG WTF LOL B/C IGNORANC3 SI A CHOIEC WHIEL STUPIDITY SI NOT!!!!1 OMG I CAN FORGIEV DA IDIOTS MORE 3ASILEY THAN TEH IGNORANT B/C IF UR STUPID U W3R3 BORN TAHT WAY!11!!!!! ITS LIEK U HAEV A CLUB FOT OR SOMETHNG!11!! WTF BUT 2 D3LIEBRAETLEY CHOSA 2 B IGNORANT??!!? TAHT SI OFANSIEV 2 ME!!111 OMG WTF BUT THEN MUCH OF OUR MARICAN CULTURE(SUCH AS IT IS) SI OFENSIEV 2 ME ANYMORA!1!!! OMG WTF LOL TAHT W3 LIEV IN A SOCEITY RMPANT WIT IGNORANC3 AND FEAR SI NAUESATNG!1!!!!11 OMG LOL TAHT WA HAPILEY P3RPATUAET IT IN OUR CHILDREN - TAHT SI UNFORGIVABLE!1!!!111 OMG WTF."

[Guest Agaib]

You know, it must take a LOT of effort trying to write something out like that. Why don't the people who do this regularly just type normally and instead invest their time into something... you know... useful?

[Charging Handles Forward]

You know, it must take a LOT of effort trying to write something out like that. Why don't the people who do this regularly just type normally and instead invest their time into something... you know... useful?

Actually, I didn't type the whole thing out. I just took Tesla's post and threw it into the English-to-12-year-old-AOL-user translator located here.

[Madame Manga]

A response I might well have made in that situation (I've worked retail):

"How right you are -- and don't forget to tell your daughter, many boys REALLY like those girls who give blowjobs at the drop of a jockstrap and don't expect, you know, a RELATIONSHIP. Can I point you to some titles we carry on oral sex technique? I mean, you want popular..."

*cue knowing Southern-belle giggle*

[Hermione Malfoy]

Okay I think I'm calm enough to reply to this thread now...

What does that woman want her daughter to grow up as? A prostitute?

"Here, honey, dress up in this short skirt make sure most of your buttons are undone and, oh don't forget to take a packet of condoms with you when you're on your rounds? We don't want you losing your popularity!"

Sheesh, I worked in several bookstores and I am SO pleased I didn't have a woman saying that to their daughters. In fact I had a rather good experience:

This father was browsing through the Second World War section of the store and his little girl who couldn't have been more than four at the time; sweet little thing with blonde hair and cute voice pointed at a picture and said:

"Who's that?"

The dad said: "Adolf Hitler."

"Was he a nice man?"

"No, he wasn't he was nasty."

And so on and so on. This man encouraged his daughter's questions, and she was a little girl. I felt so pleased to have witnessed that event.

I grew up in a houseful of books, my mother read to me when I was a child. I didn't start reading until I was eight or nine... But when I did start to read all my teachers and my parents breathed a huge sigh of relief as they were all worried I was dyslexic. I can't help but read... and have I had male attention?

Yes! Once I had two guys flirting with me - And once I had another guy fancy me on the spot - whilst I was in Hospital and looked my worst. Most guys want a woman they can talk to if they're serious about relationships.

It's one of the main reasons why I love the Legally Blonde film. It's this girl who was brought up to be the Prom Queen; the Pageant Princess; Sororiety Sue, yet she wanted different. She went to Law School and became a Lawyer. And guess what... she ended up with a gorgeous guy. What makes that film even greater is the fact that it's true! Sort of.

So I think that woman needs to wake up to the twenty first century a little and realise that girls can be intelligent and popular at the same time.

[Charging Handles Forward]

I laughed at that, CHF, because that is exactly how many of these kids talk on Runescape. I can't understand many of them because their grammar and spelling are so appallingly poor. But I do get a kick out of the unintended puns they make because of that poor spelling, like saying to a friend: "Let's meat somewhere" Makes me want to make a butcher joke, or something even more obscene, but since they're kids I refrain.

Gamer attempts to type "the" and actually types "teh." The world then falls into chaos.

[Leonhart29]

I have to agree and with the way we're educating our youngsters now a days we'll all be fried to a crisp sooner than later.

[foeofthelance]

Geh, it is rather sad. I wouldn't necessarily equate this with the end of women's lib (women's lib will probably be the end of the women's lib movement, just as any cause group eventually causes its own downfall).

In the mother's defense, that was probably what she was taught to think by her mother, who learned it from her mother, and so and so on.

The only solution I've ever seen, and it's been alluded to in the above posts, was stated rather clearly in a book I finished recently: the only think that can beat programming is survival. Granted that was in a rather grim SF book, where the invading aliens thought that a running human equated to fast food, but there you have it.

Hopefully the woman is at least letting her daughter learn how to read, so that she might understand those four little letters on those pretty bright red octagonal signs that are all over the roads these days...

[Guest Big Samurai]

Yeah, I got directed to the original LJ entry, and ... yeah, that's pathetic. (Major props to Shinga for rightfully making a web comic of that, BTW.) What's even more pathetic is that I'm not surprised, either.

[quamp]

Yea, there are still a bunch of people who cling onto stupid, incorrect ideas.

Another example of this: A few months ago I was in Baltimore for a comic book convention. The convention itself was a waste, so I went driving around before my flight back out. I ended up in a small town west of there where KKK symbols were not just present, but out in the open. People there were very racist.

*shakes head* You know, these people may be genetically programmed to think this way. I think we should make them stop breeding if that's the case.

[Guest Adara]

....

I honestly didn't know what to say, or what to think at first. Interestingly enough though, I'm not surprised that it was a mother who mislead her own daughter. If we think about it, we women end up doing it to ourselves.

After all, "we" (Universal "we" here, 'cause I'm sure most of us here don't do this crap) women end up giving into that ideal of beauty and popularity. Honestly, what would become of the famous sleazy popular girl if we as women started worshiping the Intelligent Nerdy girl in school?

It's disheartening and shameful that we haven't really moved past all that. All I think we women can do is redirect public opinion through rearing our daughters with a different set of values. After all, if the majority of the female population values the "smart girl" image, wouldn't the stupid "I'm-so-cool-'cause-I-give-it-up-at-school" girls follow suit for fear of being left behind?

Time to rewire this Bitch....

[Hermione Malfoy]

....

 

That was precisely my reaction.

I honestly didn't know what to say, or what to think at first.  Interestingly enough though, I'm not surprised that it was a mother who mislead her own daughter.  If we think about it, we women end up doing it to ourselves. 

After all, "we" (Universal "we" here, 'cause I'm sure most of us here don't do this crap) women end up giving into that ideal of beauty and popularity.

I absolutely agree with this. I tried to become the pretty one once and no matter what I did it never worked... in the end I said to myself: "Blow this! I'm going to be myself!" and I ended up getting the attention that way.

Honestly, what would become of the famous sleazy popular girl if we as women started worshiping the Intelligent Nerdy girl in school?

Precisely! Popularity is, after all, what the majority of the world thinks. If we rebelled against the 'slut in the short skirt!' type and looked at the girl or the boy sitting in the library reading and studying thinking about their future seriously then that would become popular... Popularity needs to be overturned on its head.

It's disheartening and shameful that we haven't really moved past all that.  All I think we women can do is redirect public opinion through rearing our daughters with a different set of values.  After all, if the majority of the female population values the "smart girl" image, wouldn't the stupid "I'm-so-cool-'cause-I-give-it-up-at-school" girls follow suit for fear of being left behind?

I agree, you'd think with all the Womens Rights movements that have been going throughout the 20th century from Emmeline Pankhurst to Womens Lib now this attitude would have been squashed.

Time to rewire this Bitch....

Can I join you?

[DarkCabaret]

I play an on-line game called Runescape, and the average age of the kids on there is about 14.  And the American kids can't spell and have the poorest grammar, plus they are mostly extremely ignorant.

My nephew plays on Runescape, and let's just say he thought MOUSE was spelt MOOSE! He's in 7th grade....did I mention that?

[Guest Pink Lace]

It's not just girls who are discouraged from reading and learning in this country, Pix, it's all children. I play an on-line game called Runescape, and the average age of the kids on there is about 14. And the American kids can't spell and have the poorest grammar, plus they are mostly extremely ignorant. If I make any kind of intellectual reference the people most likely to get it are those from other countries playing the game. It makes me sad. Because ignorance is a choice, while stupidity is not. I can forgive the idiots more easily than the ignorant, because if you're stupid you were born that way. It's like you have a club foot or something. But to deliberately choose to be ignorant? That is offensive to me. But then, much of our American culture(such as it is) is offensive to me anymore. That we live in a society rampant with ignorance and fear is nauseating. That we happily perpetuate it in our children - that is unforgivable.

Whoa, I play that game, too. To give a real example that happens to me all the time: I saw a character named "Tenar" and I congratulated her on having a cool name from LeGuin. She said she had been playing for years and this was the first time anyone had ever known where her name was from! Same with people with names from Shakespeare like Goneril.

I like to read and I have encountered stuff like that myself. It can be rather funny sometimes like when a male college student expressed his shock that "a girl reads science fiction? I thought they only read romance novels."