Classic/Cliche

[Guest Saiyamaru]

Love them or hate, there are many repeating themes in the Yugioh Yaoi fanbase, one of the most often seen being the "Uke".

For instance lets take Ryou Bakura. In the manga, he's an enigmatic character that at first glance, all you see is a quiet, polite,maybe shy pretty boy. However as you read on, you see that he's willing to literally die for the people he cares about, and he is fascinated and curious about the purpose and origins of the Sennen items. Enough so to ditch school and accompany Yugi and Co. to Pegasus' Island to learn more about the Eye and perhaps the other items as well, and that's just a few books after he's introduced.

In the fandom, Ryou is the "Go to" character for any story that needs a victim, and seems to have a perma-label as the "The Girl" in any relationship he's written in. A Girl, that apparently has spent her entire life in a nunnery and has no knowledge of the sins of the flesh. Poor Ryou.

While, shy, quiet, polite, and pretty are not descriptors usually used for someone that will rip off their shirt and wrestle with bears randomly, followed by making hot beast like sex with their lover on top of the freshly made fur-rug, it does seem to be coming the ones for 'The Girl'. Now ask yourself this, how many ladies do you know that are shy, quiet, and pretty that are as naive and 'innocent' as uke-Ryou is written? All the ones I know like that read, write, and draw some of the filthiest, nastiest smut on the web, and will verbally flay you alive via IM for annoying them. So at the very least, shouldn't uke-Ryou be a closet Nympho, with said closet filled with enough web ordered sex toys to rival a small sex shop? (I'd really like to see this actually) Or have some kind of passive aggressive Spontaneous Rage Syndrome that's actually caused by his own issues and not the ghost in his item?

My point is that 15 to16+ year old young men (and women), gay, bi, or straight do not act the way Ryou's character is often portrayed, yet the characterization shows up in the fandom all the time and I'm curious why.

What do you like/dislike about this particular cliche (or fandom plot classic?), or any other, that makes you read/write it, or avoid it. : )

Edited December 10, 2010 by Saiyamaru

[sglily]

Let’s take Ryou Bakura indeed…

(Good choice, by the way!)

You hit the nail on the head. Although I am not that well versed in any of the other fandoms (except, perhaps, another one on the decline, Gundam Wing) but there is always the buff, “macho”, tall, trash talking, sex-walking-on-two-legs stud who is cast as The Guy in the male/male relationship. Then you’ve got the girly girl, slight in build, meek, soft-spoken, effeminate to the max, “giggles” a lot, bashful, and somehow, has hips (and sometimes can have, gasp!, babies without having females parts to do so) cast as The Girl. Maybe it is because (and I am assuming) it is typically women who are the ones doing the aforementioned casting? Because they are typically the ones doing the male/male writing of this type of genre? Because there needs to be a connection with at least one of the characters, and who better to connect with (even if they don’t have generally the same body parts) than the fem of the two? Because chicks write about the chicks “job” in a relationship better than any man ever will – truth, cliché, or sexism? You pick!

You know, an innocent Ryou is fun to write, though. However, it is even more fun to write about an innocent Ryou that can turn into a very, very horny Ryou… when properly motivated… and turned on. I think it is a hoot to write (or read) about that type of dynamic. Sugar and spice. Clap on, clap off. We wanna see a Ryou with some balls, a little dirty Ryou who is willing to speak up in the bedroom and tell – no, demand from Bakura what he bloody well wants! Why is there a dynamic? What makes them innocent? Are they brought up in a rigid household, a byproduct of divorce or domestic abuse, were they locked in a room for most of their lives, or are they just body and emotionally shy? What makes them go from choir boy to rent boy in 0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds? Is it a touch, a scent, a kind word, the promise of love eternal, or a good spanking? Inquiring readers wanna know!

Ooooooh… Who wouldn’t want to read about an innocent Ryou with a dirty little secret… a closet filled with adult toys? And who he shares them with…

Well, my dear, you picked the biggest cliché of them all, the girly bottom boy. You touched on another, usually the girly bottom boy who has to be saved from some kind of harm. Sticking with Ryou, you’ve got the demoralized girly bottom boy – beaten, sexually abused, emotionally tormented, starved, bullied, friendless… that about covers it in a general sense.

In Gundam Wing, I’ve seen where Zechs Marquise is the girly bottom boy often enough to Treize Krushrenada even though Treize is shorter in stature by a few inches; however, Zech is younger… perhaps more effeminate looking, has the classic long whitish blond locks, and in that series, Treize is the authority figure… although Zech is a pilot and a trained… warrior?... for lack of a better term at the moment.

I don’t know . I think it depends on the characters that are paired, too. For example, after reading many fanfics about Zechs and Treize, I prefer them as equals… where one isn’t the natural dominate and the other isn’t pigeonholed into the more submissive of the two in the relationship.

Look at the YGO darks and lights… the dark side is taller, ahem… darker, sinister of sorts (yeah, even Atemu wasn’t so much the golden child in that first episode when he appears and takes down the school bully for Yugi), crazier of hair… well, with the exception of Yugi… unless you say Yami/Atemu’s is bigger and crazier than his light's. The lights have big doe eyes, softer of voice, are slighter of build, kinder. I guess they all sort of fit into an overall pattern. That’s where it is fun to play with it… have them deviate from the norm.

So, those are just some ramblings and thoughts on (and off of… sorry!) the subject you brought up.

Perhaps some more discussion? I'm game.

[Guest Saiyamaru]

You did bring up some good points which got me thinking.

The big one for me being that the writers, nearly always female writing the 'uke' as they do in order to be able to connect to the story better. Still though I have yet to meet ladies that act exactly the way an uke does. Generally that kind of behavior isn't linked to healthy individuals, but still, your question got my mind working.

A number of writers may be using the character to explore themselves and the world around them. Many of the writers seem to be either young and/or inexperienced when it comes to a number of the issues/plot devices used, such as love, gender roles, sex, even rape. So this could be a safer way for some of them to explore that. But I don't think that's the case for all of the writers. A lot of the issues I mentioned are pretty big things in our culture, and the appearance of them could be more to cash in on the shock value and drama they provide and less to actually understand them.

I know it probably goes back to having a controlled environment to work within, and the action is emulating the action the writer would take in the same position, however, One thing that still completely baffles me is Ryou and cherry lip gloss. I've seen it a number of times where he's getting ready for a date or trying to impress a special some one, and out comes the lip gloss.

Silliness aside, that kind of? (not really) leads up to my next point. A trend that pops up a lot more then cherry lip gloss and is a lot more disturbing to me is how sex is dealt with. (Not going to go into love this post) What I see almost all the time is that the written couple jumps immediately to penetration the first time they are intimate and I can count the number of times I've seen the word condom in fan-fiction on one hand. The reason I find this so disturbing is Because of how many of the writers are young/inexperienced. Sex is not something you jump into physically or emotionally, that's a good way to damage yourself badly on many levels, and I've seen STDs and unwanted pregnancies pop up even less then condoms.

I realize that fan-fiction is purely fantasy, and I know that just reading about fictional characters acting one way does not mean in anyway that the reader will think that that is how they should act, but these behaviors completely overwhelm the fan-fiction community, like it's a normal way to behave. I know I sound like an old stiff whining about 'the children' but unless you are only posting your fantasy on adult sites (and even then that only guarantees as much as the schools/parents are willing to put the effort into) how can you be sure that its not influencing a younger person's decisions? Honestly, think back to when you where a kid. Would it be incorrect to say that you trusted what your friends, your class mates, and people that you admired, more then you trusted any teacher or parent when it came to 'adult stuff'? How many teens do you think are ready/writing fiction all the time, 'exploring the world' in a 'safer' manner, and in this safer outlet, this is all they are seeing?

I'm not going to completely insult the readers intelligence, because honestly if people followed what they read that closely the world would be an uglier, more over populated place. I'm just saying, that while virginity and first times generally aren't what Hollywood makes them out to be, you still only have it one time, so why not make that time as much fun and as less traumatic as you can?

I guess the real question is, when is what is being written pure fantasy, just for fun, (so why not idealize the heck out of everything?), and when is it someone trying to explore and understand the world around them? And how can the reader know which is which?

[Guest Guest]

Ryou and his lip gloss... How about Yami, Marik (dark), and Bakura (dark) with their eye liner and sometimes eye shadow? And how many times has I read the words 'slutty clothes' and 'skin tight pants'. Okay... So, I am guilty of the skin tight clothes also but still.

A lot of what I see in every fandom is that people pick out the girliest characters and make them that way. My theory is that they cannot let go to the standard male/female way of life. What one must come to realize is that everyone and every relationship is different. You can pair to macho men together- doesn't mean they'll have an easy relationship but it is doable.

Generally I don't even use Ryou (light). Then again I do a lot of one shots with specific pairs.

The following are how I view the characters... And, use them in my stories. I often do not follow the guidelines of the anime/manga. I more often then not give each a body. I like to toy with my characters and set them up in extreme situations.

Ryou to me and it shows in my stories is at times the more mothering and innocent (even more than Yuugi) of the lot. He is openly gay and has an extremely freaky bedroom life. He's always paired is Malik (light). And is general in my writing that Malik (light) wheres the pants in the family however it is Ryou that keeps them both in line. I don't see him as 'getting an education' from Bakura because while Bakura did some nasty things I see Ryou to put on a pair of 'horse blinders' and ignore it.

Seto, Bakura (dark), Marik (dark), Otogi are corrupt and sadistic. They will do what it takes to get the job done.

Yuugi is the one who everyone pegs as innocent... But lets face it those are the ones that are the kinkiest and freakiest of them. He is often the one who gets hurt the most.

Yami (dark) is the one who rides of the shirt tails of people. He is compassionate to a fault. He often does not see his own wrongs because he did what he thought was right... or felt good at the time.

Jou unfortunately I'll have to stick with is the 'dog'. He is loyal and faithful. He is the one who will take a beating and regardless if life is good or bad go back for more.

Malik (light) is the tortured soul who learned from life's lessons. Over all goodhearted.

Anzu and Mai... They are always my lesbian pair. But I won't get into them.

They are each 'angsty' 'passionate' and 'Casanova's' in their own way.

In my older writing my male characters giggled. As I've grown in talent and skill I've stopped doing this as much as possible. My men laugh, chuckle, etc. I try to stay away from the overly girly men (except with the looks when it is suppose to be that way). I personally don't do Uke/Semi anymore. Most of my stories my partners take an equal roll in the relationship. I am probably the only one to write Yuugi paired with Bakura (dark) and Marik (dark). To each their own.

I've written male pregnancy- still do. Its fun at times. Don't ask me the logicistics of it. But I'm not the first one with the thought or the last. They at one point had a series Alien Nation where the males carried and gave birth the young. There was that Arnold S. movie Junior.

My emotions tend to show in my writing.