The deal with being betas

[Shadowknight12]

It was a great (perhaps selfish) pleasure to have someone take my advice so seriously even though it was a lot of work for him.

Isn't that a normal thing? I thought every writer worth his salt was supposed to do that. Otherwise, your beta is nothing more than a glorified spell-checker. What's the point in having someone spend their valuable time correcting your work if you're not going to pay attention to what they say? Writers who don't take criticism seriously aren't going to get far. If a reviewer or a beta explains something logically to me and I see the point of their concrit, I'll do my best to fix it, even if I have to rewrite the entire story/chapter/scene. What's the point in hanging on to something that's been logically proven to be imperfect?

Anyway, betas should be treated better. It's not like you're *paying* them to read your stuff.

[FairySlayer]

Isn't that a normal thing?

Except for my current situation and that one time, it hasn't been the normal thing for me. That's why I'm standoffish about proofreading for more people. You're entirely right that it should be that way, but I guess this ties in with the discussion about authors who want only praise.

Anyway, I just wanted to relate one positive (and ideal) experience, but perhaps it came out awkward. I'll work on that.

[djackgirl]

Actually being asked to trial run with an author isn't what would insult but more so they want to "test" us as though they don't take what we have put up seriously, even just a small piece of their work or chapter, actually- I seriously think that is a great idea- that way the beta sees what they will have to work with and the author sees how the beta is going to be. But to say that it was someone else's idea to test out the beta would worry me about how mature the author themselves are.

Its like going for a job almost, you want to sound like you actually are mature and can handle the beta taking your story and showing you where to improve- the beta doesn't need to waste time on an author who doesn't care what they have to say- that is what irked me about her more than anything.

That was a very good example actually of a good experience beta-ing and that the author actually took the advice and did try to improve the story- it shows a sense of not only commitment to the story but also to wanting to improve his skill of writing, he can learn not to write so much but reduced it down and still have it make sense.

*Must go and look at PerfectImagination* Haha, I seriously am learning more and more each day.

@Shadowknight I actually agree with you there, as I said above it shows he wanted to improve but I got the bad luck of the draw in having a new writer who didn't want to improve but, as my friend said, use me as a ghostwriter by her definition.

Haha, I am the last person in the world to want praise, for basically anything, I look at my work and still cringe to high heaven at how bad it is compared to how good it could be. I'm way better than I use to be, the girl was the same as I was in the beginning and I recognized that which is probably why I was so fine with beta reading for her at first as I knew the heat I took at the time was immense for the fandoms I was in but hey I've grown, one of my betas and I are going through my Lord of the Rings story now -all current ten chapters- and working over it to make it now I have two more years experience under my belt.

I guess the FFnet Twilight tweenies only see more reason to swoon over an over the top love story between Edward and Bella. Haha. Sorry I can be a little blunt at times with my disliking but its honest truth not one reviewer had pointed out that her grammar needed more work and more time, there was no character development (even after I spent three hours writing out what she could do to draw the reader into the characters) it was just bam this, this and this happens all so quickly and under 1,500 words and people love it. I don't get it... If they love a basic 900 word chapter with little well depth and review so much junk how come the actual time taken, thought out stories are ignored most of the time?

DJ

[Solaris]

Test for beta readers? What the... Yes I would be pissed to. I'm glad that this has brought people into sharing bad experiences with some painful authors. She sounded like she wasn't very mature.

See this is the problem, the author thinks that when we critic harshly we are being mean or unfair, I don't understand it- they want help but then they just ignore it all. It doesn't like the story would be much good if she went and did that.

DJ

She isn't mature for a 24 year old. I told her to read other people's stories and do the same with her story and rewrite her story. Send it back to me and I'll edit it. She e-mailed me telling me that she posted it. She was told to e-mail me the copy when she got it finished. She was told to send it to me but she posted it on FF.net. I left her a review telling her in no simple terms that a beta reader doesn't like being told that someone had posted a story before being edited, that is a slap to their face and I told her that don't consider me her beta reader anymore. She hasn't replied or sent me an e-mail since.

I'll tell ya. This just points even more strongly as to why the beta should be picky, and set ground rules from the start.

It also points to the fact that I was LUCKY in the authors who chose to work with me. I was upfront and honest with what I could do and was willing to do as a beta reader, they returned the favor in telling me what they needed from a beta in the first place.

I told the girl I betaed for the ground rules with a warning not to piss me off with any funny business and she sent me the test chapter to test me, with plagiarized stuff in the story itself from another writer I was beta reading at the time. Yes, she is a known plagiarist on FF.net her name MrsOptimusPrime or Bonita Prime on FF.net. Her stories are crap and plus she plagiarizes other authors' work in her stories. I make sure the people who I beta read for understand what I look for from them after I edit their story.

Being asked to take a test or give an example wouldn't insult me. An author doesn't want to wait days or weeks just to be burned with a lousy proofreading job. I usually just look at the potential beta's writing to decide, and then what they proofread is a test by itself.

I would give example of a page to the person I'm betaing for and tell them what I will be expecting from them as I will want to see the edits after I did the first edit as most people end up adding more to the chapter and I edit that before sending it back to them. Most of the time, I get it at least three times before it is posted online.

I will now beta read for only one person and she knows what I want from her amd I know what she wants from me.

Beth

[djackgirl]

Her profile says 36? Bahaha and she doesn't sound mature at all by her profile. I get the impression of- crazy lady, crazy lady behind a keyboard. See MimiFern (may as well name her) actually posted the first chapter, sent it to me, deleted the story, then reposted, then deleted and then reposted again after I'd finally gotten to beta it but she didn't actually take in anything into account only asked to use lines I'd used in the beta version to show her where to go from wrong to right.

I saw the review, good on ya for doing it on the public review board which they actually can't delete without reporting them for a good reason.

It also points to the fact that I was LUCKY in the authors who chose to work with me. I was upfront and honest with what I could do and was willing to do as a beta reader, they returned the favor in telling me what they needed from a beta in the first place.

I had all of the above save for the last part as she didn't actually tell me what she needed from me and even when I asked it was, "just don't get too technical"... All I did was tell her she needed depth in her characters that just because Stephanie has written them one way does not mean you don't explore them and when its an AU reality story, that strongly applies.

I would give example of a page to the person I'm betaing for and tell them what I will be expecting from them as I will want to see the edits after I did the first edit as most people end up adding more to the chapter and I edit that before sending it back to them. Most of the time, I get it at least three times before it is posted online.

I beta read the chapters once and never got them sent back to see how she had improved them.

This here is an excerpt of how I tried to help her capture things right:

First hers:

I can’t believe I was so careless as to actually fall into the trap of that revolting pig of a man.

I had been raised better and warned all my life to never converse with strangers let alone walk around in the dark with them. And what do I do the first time I am alone? Find one to kidnap me!

I was so incredibly incensed and angered at my stupidity and ignorance that before I knew it I was stomping my way to the immense wooden door, and pounding upon it with all I had.

After about 7 minutes of this I realized nobody was coming to my rescue and I figured I should evaluate the door for weakness.

And here is my view on where to go right:

(Try and capture a panic. Make a few short but strong, panic mood sentences and try to capture the imagery and atmosphere. Remember 1st person requires a lot of detail because it is coming from the character directly. You want a reader drawn in and made to feel like they are there. And remember the time period you're writing in don't make them act like modern day people would to such things.)

This was not happening.

This couldn't be happening.

It just couldn't!

{Sense the urgency and panic by just three little lines}

But no matter what I did I still knew that I was locked in a strange mans rooms, with no chance of escape.

I felt ridiculous that I had so easily believed and fallen into such a now blatant trap. He had been smooth and calm. Approaching me just like a gentleman would. No man out that late at night would ever be of a gentlemanly nature.

My father raised me better than this. How many times had I heard him tell me not to talk to strangers?

I didn't even realize that I wasn't safe with this man. I was lost, and just needed a way home.

I didn't even get to explain most of what I was trying to teach her in the comparison chapter because she told me not to get overly detailed... She did need the help, no?

I don't know I think that here, Wrestling fandom and the King Arthur fandom is the best place to be, no more Twilight tweenies for sure.

[Solaris]

Her profile says 36? Bahaha and she doesn't sound mature at all by her profile. I get the impression of- crazy lady, crazy lady behind a keyboard. See MimiFern (may as well name her) actually posted the first chapter, sent it to me, deleted the story, then reposted, then deleted and then reposted again after I'd finally gotten to beta it but she didn't actually take in anything into account only asked to use lines I'd used in the beta version to show her where to go from wrong to right.

I saw the review, good on ya for doing it on the public review board which they actually can't delete without reporting them for a good reason.

She lied about her age being 36 as that's her Transformers character's age and she is crazy. She even had a ED page filled with her lies and thefts of other people's photos and other stuff. Go here to see the stuff that is spoken about her: Mrs. Optimus Prime's ED Page.

And there are other people on DeviantART who has encountered her craziness.

TRMOP as everyone calls her, her stories are rank beyond belief. No beta reader in their right mind would really help her as she would rather just copy and paste someone else's story into her story and claim it as hers.

Beth

[djackgirl]

She lied about her age being 36 as that's her Transformers character's age and she is crazy. She even had a ED page filled with her lies and thefts of other people's photos and other stuff. Go here to see the stuff that is spoken about her: Mrs. Optimus Prime's ED Page.

And there are other people on DeviantART who has encountered her craziness.

TRMOP as everyone calls her, her stories are rank beyond belief. No beta reader in their right mind would really help her as she would rather just copy and paste someone else's story into her story and claim it as hers.

Beth

She is psychotic even more so than ones I've seen before... damn creepy.

[Solaris]

She is psychotic even more so than ones I've seen before... damn creepy.

Yeah, she's even on DeviantART as Bonita Prime and even there she's nuts. She even threatened to commit suicide because her followers had found out that she was a thief and a liar, they returned to her and now believe her claims even after they learned that she lied to them. She is a big ass lying bitch and her stories that is done are rank to the point that I will never beta for her again.

Beth

[FairySlayer]

I would give example of a page to the person I'm betaing for and tell them what I will be expecting from them as I will want to see the edits after I did the first edit as most people end up adding more to the chapter and I edit that before sending it back to them. Most of the time, I get it at least three times before it is posted online.

I will now beta read for only one person and she knows what I want from her amd I know what she wants from me.

That's fair, and it's pretty close to how EF and I work. Once a story has been sent to the other it's "frozen" to the author until it comes back. Don't even open the file, uh-uhn, no way, not gonna happen. Jot down any new thoughts about it somewhere else until it's retuned. Besides, taking a few days off helps the author see the story with fresh eyes too. Actually, once I'm absolutely certain that my story is finished and perfect I will freeze it for myself; after several days I open it to fix the hundred of mistakes I couldn't see before. (Sometimes I even have to re-freeze it!) That makes my beta's job much easier, and in return she has more time to take in the story and give me story notes.

We use change-tracking to see who's done exactly what in each pass. On the rare occasion either of us rejects a change then we explaining why in an annotation. Heck, we use annotations a lot: for suggestions, questions, structural issues... plus jokes and puns too. Sometimes I'll even write a zinger — anything from a few sentences to an entire sex scene with an abominable pairing — just to get her goat. Our sense of humor is very important.

Three passes is pretty hardcore and admirable. We typically can make only two. After that her stories are so embedded in my head that I miss too much. Also, she has a busy real life, so I don't get a lot of "work" right now, and I won't ask her to drop everything to check my weekly challenge responses. (I also don't have time to "freeze" those myself either. Oh well.)

Since I have some extra time I wouldn't mind proofreading short to medium sized stories for others, providing we play by the same rules and I'm comfortable with the genre. I like your idea of doing an example page for an author to see if we click. (I also have plenty of examples of my hack jobs, even for my own stories!) Some authors probably would reject me because I'm a bit pedantic.

And, as you can see, long-winded.

[djackgirl]

Fairy you aren't long winded at all, its betas like you that are what aspiring writers need.

[Solaris]

Indeed, the more beta readers like you, the better we writers will become.

Beth