This Is A Shame

[foeofthelance]

What's worse is after Storyjunkie mentioned that a teacher or other federal employee would use the term minor, that maybe some one's parent had found the site, read a few of the worse stories, and is now out there plotting. Hopefully it's a ridiculous idea.

I will now offer my opinion on the matter. Be warned, I ramble.

When it comes to the minor stories, some are good, some are bad. I don't mean this in the way of the stlye of writing, I mean some are seriously depraved. Five and six year olds having relationships with 45 year olds? Those I never make it past the first few paragraphs, having been seriously squicked by it.

The (And forgive for using the term!) tween years are more iffy. Ten and eleven are pushing it, but I have seen some girls devolop early. As far as I know, boys still aren't quite ready, so my suspension of disbelief ends up trying take a vacation and failing. But when written well, I make it to the end. Sometimes with a smile on my face.

Older then that, (around fourteen) and the kids are sexually ready. Let's face it, the human form is not really meant to be around 100 years. Some make it, and thanks to modern medicine, we can expect it. Mother Nature hasn't caught on to this fact, and the ever so successful "Breed 'EM Young" strategy is still mandate biologically. Here they could be just as mature as an eighteen year old, or just as immature as a five year old. It's up to the mentality of the character in question. Sort of hard to descirbe really, So Dr. Foeofthelance hereby prescribes reading Robert Heinlein's To Sail Beyond the Sunset Deals with the topic rather well, including incestous relationships between experimenting teens.

Does this site handle it well? Well some do, some don't. A good example of an author who deals with the topic well is Peter_Pan. He runs around the Originals Erotica/Sex category, and has a rather tasteful style. I thought Harper Valley was good, and am waiting for the seventh installment of Even in the Best Familys Others, and there's too many to really require an example, deal with it rather crudely, merely trying to exploit the age of the characters for an extra kick to their story. (Sorry Melody, never read your story, so I'm not trying to comment on it either way.)

I myself have several stories where the characters are all under the age of legal consent, but are having sex amongst themselves, and not with adults. (Age of legal consent in the United States is tricky. Varies from state to state, youngest being fourteen, averaging around seventeen or eighteen. Internet is mandatory eighteen though.) But if the OP is seriously going to insist High School students don't experiment with and enjoy sex, then either they've fallen through some sort of timewarp from Never, or they're just bloody stupid.

AT: My mother knows what I write. Sometimes she even edits. My brother knows what I write, and has even added a few requests. My friends know as well, and does my girlfriend. She's even asked for new chapters be emailed to her ahead of the rest of the world. The only one who doesn't know, as far as I can tell, is my father, and even he may have some idea.

[Guest Melody Fate]

Does this site handle it well? Well some do, some don't. A good example of an author who deals with the topic well is Peter_Pan. He runs around the Originals Erotica/Sex category, and has a rather tasteful style.

I'm odd with Peter Pan. I think his gift of words is remarkable. He's a damned good storyteller. His subject matter has a tendency to get me a little squicked. Some of the "revenge" stories he does I find I enjoy. But, there just comes a time when I want to say, "Can you write something besides daddy and his daughter or older guy and younger girl?" It is starting to feel like he's writing the same stories over and over again. I'd like to see him try his hand at something else, just for the variety.

(Sorry Melody, never read your story, so I'm not trying to comment on it either way.)

Well, now I'm completely offended and I'm going to go off and sulk for hours on end, bemoaning the nerve of you to not only not read my story, but then to tell me you don't read it. *tear*

All kidding aside, if you like Peter Pan's style, I'd wager the odds are good you won't like mine, at least for this story. (and since it's the only story I have here for now, that's rather a moot point, but in the future I might have others.) It's a first person story, which Peter Pan does a lot of, but the main character in mine is gutsy, ballsy, and crude as hell. She's the product of her environment and she doesn't mince words. She's a self admitted sex addict and has no problem using the "red letter" porn words. Peter Pan's style is a lot more graceful.

My character is fifteen. As I've mentioned, I had reasons for making her that age and I stick with them.

Older then that, (around fourteen) and the kids are sexually ready.

I really wish the world would recognize this. It's annoying the hell out of me that anyone from the ages of 0 - 17 years, 364 days, and 59 minutes are all lumped in the catagory with most people. "Oh my god, you're writing CHILD PORN!" as if there's no difference. There is. I get very squicked out at the thought of a 0-12 year old having sex, especially with someone who's older than them. I'd find a 6 year old and a 16 year old having sex to be more disgusting than a 15 year old and a 25 year old. Same ten years difference in age. But techically, the first senario is just two kids... so I guess the 16 year old wouldn't be considered a pedophile. Yet, in the second senario, the 25 year old would be considered a pedophile, even if the 15 year old had the body of a 21 year old.

When AFF was down, I looked into finding other places to post my story. Yes, I know, the ASSM site will take it, but I don't feel the story quite belongs there. What I wanted to find was a place where I could have my own website and post the story myself.

Before I decided to go with Live Journal, I went to several places. Most of them said, "We don't take anything involving minors." Many even went on to add how much the thought of child porn disgusted them, coming off very much like, "And if you even get a tingle thinking of anyone under the age of 18 having sex, you're a pervert a pedophile and should kill yourself to spare the world!"

I found one place that said, "If it's legal, we allow it, if not, we don't." Just to make sure, I wrote. I explained the story was completely fictional and I had no intention of posting pictures, even drawings of the character. I just wanted to run it by them.

I got back a letter from them that said basically "What part of we don't allow child pornography don't you understand?" and then went on to suggest I get help immedietly, and they were turning my email address over to the police.

(So, if you suddenly hear about some middle aged woman in New England getting busted for writing "child porn" that's me!)

I'm still reeling over that one. Yes, my story is crude, yes it does involve someone underage, but first off she's fifteen, not five and second she's fake!

I would understand if this site didn't take snuff, rape, necrophilia, beastiality stories, but they do. You can even put up pictures of bondage, so on and so forth, as long as you claim they're staged pictures of these acts, using models, not real people being tortured, raped and so on. Their opinion is that that is a fiction and harmless fantasy. Child porn however, is child porn and even fictional children cannot be exploited.

That's another reason why this "Sunny" pissed me off. Don't people know the difference between a story and reality? And why is it that people know the difference only when it doesn't deal with underage people? We all know that rape fics aren't real, we all know that torture fics aren't real. We all know that the word "fiction" means "made up." Yet, when it comes to using someone underage, fiction is just as bad as reality.

I hate double standards.

Mother Nature hasn't caught on to this fact, and the ever so successful "Breed 'EM Young" strategy is still mandate biologically.

Not to mention, thanks to healthier living conditions so on and so forth, children are hitting puberty at younger ages. When I was a kid, all the books said that the average age for girls to begin getting their period was 12- 16. I got mine on my 14th birthday, which I figured was just the right age to start. Now, I think it isn't unusual for girls to start when they're 10.

Deep down inside of us, we're all hard wired to find people we think would make the best partners to produce offspring attractive. No one has ever been able to explain to mother nature that we have laws now, and that we really need to be able to turn on desire and attraction until that person reaches the age of 18. Not to mention mother nature herself doesn't want us waiting. As far as she's concerned, once we're ready, there's no reason to prolong making babies.

Considering I know of kids 13 and older who've been pregnant, I have a hard time choking down the idea that teenagers are innocent little flowers when it comes to sex and even fictional teenagers will suffer deeply if they have any type of sex, especially with someone that happens to be over the age of 18.

What's worse is after Storyjunkie mentioned that a teacher or other federal employee would use the term minor, that maybe some one's parent had found the site, read a few of the worse stories, and is now out there plotting. Hopefully it's a ridiculous idea.

I don't think so. If they really wanted to shut us down, I don't think they'd say anything, just call the cops. Why tip us off?

Also, I wonder about the "shutting AFF down." I'm not saying it couldn't happen, if people squalk it will, but before that point, if necessary, AFF could find ways to tighten up security. They could go on a total login and password system that you have to sign up for and be age verified before getting any access to the site.

I'm not advocating that. In fact, I'd find it a huge pain in the ass if it came down to that. I really don't want to have to send a copy of my drivers license to the folks of AFF. I don't know who they are, I don't want them having all that information on me, it's none of their business, all that is their business is that I'm over the age of 18. However, I do know it can be done if AFF really wanted to stay open and too many people were presuring them because of the ease of little Johnny and little Suzie getting on the site, that would be one way to do it.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

You know, something that just occured to me is that the whole way the original post was written smacks of immaturity. Not a Gov. worker, or even a Teacher. Teachers use caps and proper sentance structure. Something about it makes me think "Teenager" or someone in their 20's.

That would be rather funny, come to think of it.

[NightScribe]

You know, something that just occured to me is that the whole way the original post was written smacks of immaturity.

That's the first thing I thought of. It definitely sounded like some 16-20 yr old, trying to be mature. I think Melody pointed out that they probably read some minor story and enjoyed it, then guilt made them leave the post. Have you seen the dear girl leave a post anywhere else on this forum? I haven't. Good riddance.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Forum Virgin

*

Group: Members

Posts: 1

Naughty Points: 130

Member No.: 3507

Joined: 16-July 06

Only signed up to post this...

Immature, if nothing else.

[Guest Evil_Labs]

I'd note this sections mod to just delete it, but it is such a wonderful monument to stupidity that I feel I must let it stand. It's almost mesmerizing.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

See, thisis why we need a Wall of Shame!

[Guest Melody Fate]

See, thisis why we need a Wall of Shame!

For this post? Nah, we need a "prefered list" (Which could be posted on the "wall of shame" as well)

I worked for a place where the owner had a "prefered list" of customers. He took great pride in telling people "You're on our prefered list."

What they didn't know was that "prefered" mean, "We prefer you went elsewhere."

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

<3<3

"All the people we love the most... Love to HATE!"

[Guest Mike256bit]

I think it'd be a crime to delete this thread, what with the awesome everyone brought to the table.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I think it'd be a crime to delete this thread, what with the awesome everyone brought to the table.

You know! We need this to stand as an example of how all of us scathing bitches deal with the excessive amounts of stupid that plague us and spread like an STD!

[Guest Agaib]

You know! We need this to stand as an example of how all of us scathing bitches deal with the excessive amounts of stupid that plague us and spread like an STD!

STDs only spread if you fuck with them.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I was just browsing through the site's TOS agreement and found something SPECIFICALLY concerning this thread. Read:

"I believe in the principles of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution; this holds that free adults have the right to decide for themselves what they will or will not subject themselves to concerning the viewing of adult-oriented material, without government interference or consent."

"By entering this site, I am demonstrating my opinion that the material contained herein is not obscene or offensive, nor could it ever be construed to be so."

"I understand that should I ever become personally affronted by (or no longer desire to view, for any reason) the content of this site at any time in the future, it will be up to me to depart AdultFanFiction.net, and not return. I understand that I will not be contacted by AdultFanFiction.net or subject to its material ever again, should I make this choice."

<3

[Guest Filledolle]

Unless the feelings of fictional characters are considered equal to those of people, fictional violence / violation is not wrong.

It is socially correct to flaunt the disgust or rejection of socially unacceptable things. This is why some terms of service document may act unctuous when making its point "no child porn". Their overly emotional tone comes from their want to stress their eagerness to enforce the norm, not from a strong hate against the thing itself, although that may be involved.

That some think fictional violence is the same as actual violence is just people acting incoherent because they are offended by the mere thought of what repulses them, either sincerely or because of the need to fit the norm. They may believe that talking of a phenomenon leads to its spreading. But only an unintellectual human being would think it acceptable to restrict culture from mentioning things. That's a sign of decline and totalitarian thinking, simple as that.

The society is sick. That is the main reason for sick phenomena. Openness does not promote unpleasant things but lessens the need for them, and is a sign of sincere health.

There is no one reason why people would write stories where pedophilia has a role. It may be for artistic reasons. It can be someone's form of self therapy because of painful memories of being abused. It may be someone's rebellion against not being allowed to say ugly things aloud. Or an outlet for unconscious desires. Or because of an unpronounced and vague interest that has nothing to do with pain, fear, desire, disgust etc.

Pedophilia is not wrong because it is socially inappropriate. It is wrong because of the pain of the victim.

[Bargle5]

A couple of thoughts::

FWIW

I have one story up here involving characters that are 11 years old and having sex. It's in the Harry Potter section. In it, I have one of the byproducts of being a witch or wizard is that you hit puberty and have a higher than the general population sex drive at about the time you enter Hogwarts. Since this is typical in the wizarding world, they have classes for it. Yes, classes, and not just the biological info type. Your head of house actually takes you step by step through your early experiences and it continues up through your 4th year. it's all done in a goofy, lighthearted manner, not as a serious thing.

On your parents having sex: One of the most 'ewww' things ever in my life was when I figured out what my parent's 'code phrase' for sex was.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

A couple of thoughts::

FWIW

I have one story up here involving characters that are 11 years old and having sex. It's in the Harry Potter section. In it, I have one of the byproducts of being a witch or wizard is that you hit puberty and have a higher than the general population sex drive at about the time you enter Hogwarts. Since this is typical in the wizarding world, they have classes for it. Yes, classes, and not just the biological info type. Your head of house actually takes you step by step through your early experiences and it continues up through your 5th year. it's all done in a goofy, lighthearted manner, not as a serious thing.

On your parents having sex: One of the most 'ewww' things ever in my life was when I figured out what my parent's 'code phrase' for sex was.

Okay, A) I think I want to read that story now! ^__^ I like stories like that (for some reason... Huh...).

See, you're lucky My parents just said "I'm gonna go have sex now!"

[Bargle5]

Okay, A) I think I want to read that story now! ^__^ I like stories like that (for some reason... Huh...).

See, you're lucky My parents just said "I'm gonna go have sex now!"

The story is "The Missing Bits"

http://hp.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=544190006

It's uneven in quality, some parts are funnier than others. It's not really a single story, but more of a group of related fics. I haven't updated it in a while because my personal writing muse has wandered off and shows no signs of coming back.

Re: Parent's phrase. Sympathy ewww.

[Guest ShinigamiShimai]

hi hi,

I just joined this place and would like to thank you all for this thread. I write some rather dark stuff about child abuse and the like and am nevous everytime I consider posting my stories. My wife suggested this site because others are finding my stories alittle too dark and distrubing. I tend to write lesbian stories about abused kids trying to cope with the maddness of their minds. It helps me cope with my own nightmares from my past. I've been getting more bold about what I'm writing about as of late and post mostly on my own site. One of my more popular stories deals with a 18 year old girl remembering how she first fell in love with another girl at age 10. It is a true story of my past and was rough writing because I added in some rather intimate moments from those days. I've got yelled at for writing the story but get more emails thanking me for writing such a dark tale. Lately I've been writing a story about kids dealing with vivid nightmares and it is rather hard to write because of some of the imagary and situations involved. I keep getting scared and even got sick while writing one part dealing with child porn and a girl struggling with the feeling it caused her. I'm still nervous about posting said story because of just how deep I went into the characters. But now that I've read this I might consider it. So far I've only posted a Victoria horror that deal with 16 year olds simply because people were young when getting married and the like in those days.

Anyways, Sorry to ramble. Thanks again this thread gives me more courage to post my tales.

jaa ne

Kat Williams

[Guest Yhitzak]

How can a writer claim that in writing erotic fiction involving minors they are somehow exemplifying the negativity behind these actions? Lolita (as several of the others on this string mentioned) is a novel about paedophilia. What you've failed to mention (and this is undeniably paramount, given the venue and apparent interest level in this subject) is that Lolita was *never* written as a piece of erotic or pornographic fiction. Nabokov never once explicitly detailed the liasons between Lolita and Humbert, which is why bringing this piece up in this context is not only irresponsible, but flat-out stupid. Written pornography (and yes, this is what the majority of fictions on this site contain) is not any more acceptable than pictoral pornography. Child pornography is not (as one might believe if they were to read this particular string) limited to photographs. While the line is easy to blur on a site such as this one (especially with so many claiming that they write these things 'to help them through their troubled pasts'), the fact of the matter remains the same: explicitly detailing the sexual liasons of children is pornography, *not* erotica. (Pay attention to the qualification of my language, here, or you might get the wrong idea. 'Explicit' is a keyword!)

If a writer wishes to exemplify the negative points behind the sexualization of children, they have absolutely *no* business posting their works under a heading of 'erotica.'

[Azuru]

STDs only spread if you fuck with them. 

Well, everyone here pretty much screwed sunny over, so I'd say the deed's been done. XD There's nothing here that I can really add, but I'm just surprised to see so many.... speeches, you know? That's what they feel like to me--speeches! You guys are so amazing! <3

Sometimes, when you think about it, you NEED the more or less incompetent folks, because it's a reminder of what you already know to be the truth, you know? I don't have a way with words like you guys do, so you probably don't get my point, but this has really been an awesome thread. @_@

[Lady Large Bottom]

This thread contains massive amounts of fail, thanks to the OP, but the replies of the other members here make up for it with so much win it isn't even funny.

There should totally be a "Memorable Threads" section or something.

[foeofthelance]

Wow, I've heard of thread-o-mancy before, but not like this. When did this thing pop back up?

(As for the parents thing: I recently got my mother addicted to John Ringo books. The cause? The main character in the Paladin of Shadows series has a bondage fetish, which was explored in some detail. I was laughing about one scene, in which one of his "students" called her mother for permission to leave the U.S. to go to the Bahamas, and got quite a history out of her mother. Why did I not find this emberassing? I had found my mother's copy of Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty trilogy when I was 12.)

[Guest Pink Lace]

12 is the age of consent where I am from!

Yeah I know that doesn't particularly contribute anything new to this discussion but I just wanted to reiterate that it is more than just hypothetical. Writers and readers here do come from places where having sex with 12 year olds is legal.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I know in Japan the legal age of consent varies from 12 to 17 depending where you are exactly.

Which country are you in?