Nine-Year-Old's Abortion Outrages Brazil's Catholic Church

[bookworm51485]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1883598,00.html

I hope that even pro-lifers would be sickened by this. Though there was a discussion where one woman had this to say:

This is an emotional case but two infants were murdered because their mother was raped. These children could have been carried to a certain point and delivered then given up for adoption. I realize that this was an extremely high risk pregnancy, but there were other means than murdering the babes. Stepfather should be punished to the furthest extent of the law and why did he get to make decision on the abortion???

Church law defends the unborn. Just because they looked away in the pedophilia cases is no reason to justify looking away in this case, also. In this case, 3 wrongs don't make this right.

And then tried to further defend herself with this:

1st, I have 3 children.

2nd, she never would have had a vaginal delivery. I said for her to carry as long as she could, then deliver the babies. Infants can survive now at 20+ weeks with medical intervention.

You think this girl is going to be OK with the fact that she KILLED the TWO babies growing inside of her??? Something her church has taught her was WRONG!!!

Every woman I know who had an abortion regretted it later, several were suicidal even years later; others just suffered recurring depression. Every one of them wished they could go back and choose delivery/adoption.

By giving the babies to people who could raise them, she could have been taught that she was making something good (a new family) come out of her pain. At least she would know her babies were ALIVE not murdered.

I don't think it is selfish to put innocent infants' lives before one's own.

I spent 5 mos on bedrest w/one pregnancy trying to keep her AND myself alive (placenta previa) when others said I should abort and just have another later. Thankfully, all turned out well & we have a beautiful 13 yr old daughter. I would have regretted aborting for my ease of mind and body--THAT would have been SELFISH!

I don't think she gets that her situation and this girl's situation were completely different. And I find myself feeling quite sorry for her 'beautiful 13 yr old daughter', if her attitude is that if her daughter gets raped, despite being much too young, despite the potential emotional damage, despite the risks to her health, she'd force her to go through with the pregnancy anyways.

[SereneLies]

Situations like this are very touchy and unfortunately you tend to get people who are very pro-life to the point of zealous in their beliefs, and then you get the the people who honestly don't give a flying fuck; it would be easy for them to say "goodbye" if they had an inconvenient pregnancy.

I myself am pro-life to a point, but it is only where my body is concerned. I can't say I know that I would keep a child that was born by rape, no woman can no that until it happens, but under any other circumstance, even if it was my own stupidity, I would keep the child and put it up for adoption (at this age anyways) but like I said, thats a personal choice.

What people need to understand is that the choice to keep a child is something that belongs solely to the mother. I am not saying I necessarily agree with abortion but like I said, it is up to the woman who has been impregnated as to whether they want to go through with that or not.

In a situation like this, however, the girl is screwed either way. She is nine years old and has been impregnated; that right there is wrong - her decision what to do afterwards should not be judged by others.

But I think you are going to have people out there who would be disgusted by the abortion just like the woman quoted here, and you are going to have people who would have been disgusted if she kept the baby; You can't please everybody, which is why you have to do right by your own conscience

[Psychostorm]

I love abortion, I wish we could pile up a mountain of dead fetuses and bathe in their blood.

Oh and that dude who impregnated the 9 year old is the lucky one. Damn, that must have been one nice tight pussy. I'd fuck her, get her pregnant, knock a few dents in that fetus's head with my cock then rip it out with my bare hands and make her eat it.

[Melrick]

I love abortion, I wish we could pile up a mountain of dead fetuses and bathe in their blood.

Oh and that dude who impregnated the 9 year old is the lucky one. Damn, that must have been one nice tight pussy. I'd fuck her, get her pregnant, knock a few dents in that fetus's head with my cock then rip it out with my bare hands and make her eat it.

Any more of that and you're getting shown the door, for good.

[Psychostorm]

Any more of that and you're getting shown the door, for good.

Why is that? I'm not allowed to have and express a differing opinion than you? Or is it that what I said upset you and you want to get back at me by banning me? Which is it? Would you be banning me "for the good of the community" or simply for some misguided self righteous bullshit? I'm guessing the later, since this is AFF after all, the place where Free Speech reigns supreme and all opinions and view points are welcome, no matter how unpopular or twisted.

Do you know how many stories there are on this site about 9 year olds and younger being raped, murdered or otherwise violated?

Do you know how many stories there are where the depravity goes much, much deeper than even that?

I have read stories on this site that make this news story seem tame.

And if you're going to play the "this is a real situation" card, all I have to say is, I've read some pretty fucked up shit in the "Non-fiction" catagory.

Or maybe you'll label me a "troll", a popular way of demonizing someone and a handy excuse to silence those who disagree with you. Still, it's a transparent method that only fools those of shallow minds, I would think those here in this community of free thinkers would be able to see through such nonsense.

If you care about this kid and what she's going through that's fine. But you can't force or even expect everyone to share you opinion. I know you mean well but when you get to the point to where you are silencing dissident opinions, no matter how vile, vulgar or inhuman, you yourself have crossed a line and become just like those who persecute people like us. Those who would tear this site down under false pretenses of self righteous bullshit.

[Melrick]

One more and you're banned, permanently. Play by the rules or go elsewhere, it's your decision.

[Saitochan]

I love abortion, I wish we could pile up a mountain of dead fetuses and bathe in their blood.

Oh and that dude who impregnated the 9 year old is the lucky one. Damn, that must have been one nice tight pussy. I'd fuck her, get her pregnant, knock a few dents in that fetus's head with my cock then rip it out with my bare hands and make her eat it.

Duuude! Talk about hard-core!

Come on people, there's no need to get so worked up. I know and understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and god (or whatever) bless AFF, where you can express your fantasies and opinions without getting the evil-eye from everyone; but as far as I was concerned, this thread was destined to discuss the news about the rape of that 9 year-old and the fairness (or unfairness? I don't know anymore) of the decisions taken by entities such as the Brazilian Government or the Catholic Church. As much as everyone likes a joke or any kind of comment that could relieve the tension in an issue as polemic as this one, people's morals (christian morals mostly) just aren't prepared for a comment like yours. Hell, even I was taken a bit back by it.

As for me, I do believe it's a bit over the top to ban someone for such a remark, since an issue like this one, where pro-lifers, pro-abortionists, religious and non-religious folk debate and things tend to get really heated up, its just a matter of time before the really raw and "bad-taste" comments come up. After all, you can't have a polemical debate without polemical comments, can you now?

Oh, I almost forgot. I'm pro-abortion, especially in cases where there's rape, but I believe the desicion belongs exclusively to the raped woman. Neither the government nor the church should have a say in the matter.

[Guest jj19]

I love abortion, I wish we could pile up a mountain of dead fetuses and bathe in their blood.

Oh and that dude who impregnated the 9 year old is the lucky one. Damn, that must have been one nice tight pussy. I'd fuck her, get her pregnant, knock a few dents in that fetus's head with my cock then rip it out with my bare hands and make her eat it.

If the mods don't want it, the mods don't want it. It is off topic, feel free to write a story inspired by it. But if you are on the forum follow forum rules.

If you want to make comments like that on a regular basis, try one of the imageboards, like 4chan.

[bookworm51485]

Why is that? I'm not allowed to have and express a differing opinion than you?

I'm all for expressing differing opinions, but talking about raping a nine-year old, getting her pregnant and ripping out the fetus so as to make her eat it... that doesn't sound like an opinion. I don't think anyone could take that as an opinion. That sounds like something aimed at just pissing off as many people as possible.

[DemonGoddess]

Everyone, what you're looking at is classic flamebaiting. So, what you do is ignore it, let the mods handle it (which is being done), and continue your discussion.

As to the original topic...

Personally, I cannot see allowing a raped 9 year old to carry a child, period. For one, it's dangerous to her, physically. It could KILL that girl. Why on earth anyone in their right mind would think it's okay for a little girl to risk life and limb to bear the result of a rape is beyond me. I'm glad that she was allowed to terminate that pregnancy. But, that's my opinion.

[Saitochan]

If the mods don't want it, the mods don't want it.

Well, can't argue with that.

Back to the issue at hand... I read that, while the 9 year-old was indeed able to abort, her whole family was excommunicated, along with the doctors that made the abortion.

WHAT KIND OF SH*T IS THAT?

"God's laws," said the archbishop, dictate that abortion is a sin and that transgressors are no longer welcome in the Roman Catholic Church. "They took the life of an innocent," Sobrinho told TIME in a telephone interview. "Abortion is much more serious than killing an adult. An adult may or may not be an innocent, but an unborn child is most definitely innocent. Taking that life cannot be ignored."

So, according to that archbishop, saving the life of a child is a sin greater than murdering in cold blood.

Man, I can't stand that crap. So, what's next? Organ transplants will end in excommunication as well?

[bookworm51485]

So, according to that archbishop, saving the life of a child is a sin greater than murdering in cold blood.

Man, I can't stand that crap. So, what's next? Organ transplants will end in excommunication as well?

The thing I find funniest in that is his comment about an unborn child definitely being an innocent. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Catholocism say that unless a child is baptized, they can't get into heaven. That they end up in purgatory (I'm pretty sure it's purgatory, I don't think it's Hell). Doesn't that contradict itself. If a child is perfectly innocent then shouldn't they be allowed in heaven? Or is the act of being a born a sin that they must be forgiven for? B)

[Saitochan]

The thing I find funniest in that is his comment about an unborn child definitely being an innocent. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Catholocism say that unless a child is baptized, they can't get into heaven. That they end up in purgatory (I'm pretty sure it's purgatory, I don't think it's Hell). Doesn't that contradict itself. If a child is perfectly innocent then shouldn't they be allowed in heaven? Or is the act of being a born a sin that they must be forgiven for?

Well... it seems this archbishop conveniently decided to forget and/or overlook the ever-mentioned "original sin" in order to say unborn babies are innocent. It's not the first time that happens. Though I can't think of any examples right now, contradiction within the sayings of the bible and the catholic church is something rather common.

And yes, I think unbaptized babies and virtuous people from other religions go to purgatory instead of Hell. That's ridiculous if you ask me. If you're virtuous, you should go to heaven, no matter who or what it is you adore. After all, "God", "Allah", "Jehova", and many many other names are just that: Different names to refer to one same being.

[DemonGoddess]

See, that's the thing with organized religion. Dogma and common sense often never EVER meet. Very contradictory.

[Melrick]

What, so... religions usually contradict themselves over and over and over again? No, surely not, that doesn't sound like religions at all...

[Ezriee]

-ignores troll-

When my sister was 11, there was a 10 yr old in her class that was pregnant. The girl ended up having the child and from what my sister tells me, that messed her up just as much, if not more so, than if she had aborted the child because either way you look at it, theres going to be emotional/mental harm done.

I am all for a woman's right to choose. I won't allow anyone to tell me what I can and can't do with my body, but when it comes to children THAT young, they shouldn't give birth. Just my personal opinion. Just thinking of the physical pain and discomfort that they'll go through when their minds and bodies aren't ready for that...I can't even imagine what it would be like. Children wont understand 'Placenta Previa' and having to stay on fricken bed rest. they'll want to be up and about.

As far as the church...if I was in that situation with a child of mine, I'd get them the abortion, tons of counseling and still keep my beliefs in my religion or find one with similar beliefs...theres more than one religion out there. People convert all the time.

-shrugs- again, personal opinion.

[SereneLies]

Okay, I realize it may sound like I was saying the girl should keep the baby before but I completely agree with you guys. Children should NOT be having children.

The thing that really gets me with this whole situation is that they are excommunicating the entire family for her having the abortion, but not the stepfather who raped her and got her pregnant. If anyone deserves punishment, it is him.

[Saitochan]

The thing that really gets me with this whole situation is that they are excommunicating the entire family for her having the abortion, but not the stepfather who raped her and got her pregnant. If anyone deserves punishment, it is him.

Damn right.

[bookworm51485]

The thing that really gets me with this whole situation is that they are excommunicating the entire family for her having the abortion, but not the stepfather who raped her and got her pregnant. If anyone deserves punishment, it is him.

That is true.

[DemonGoddess]

Like I said earlier, dogma and common sense, as well as logic are often not compatible. Regardless of the religion in question.

I think that this man who did this to the nine year old, should be not only in prison, but put into general population. From what friends of mine who've worked in prisons have said, as well as news reports in past and whatnot, the inmates would do more to exact justice from this beast than any legal system could.

[SereneLies]

As Rorschach from Watchmen says

Humans get arrested; dogs get put down

I have plenty of compassion but none where this man is concerned

[greenwizard]

I'm a little bit on the fence about abortion. I don't think a woman should be allowed to be an irresponsible slut and not face the consequences. However, that is only my opinion. I don't see any reason why I should have any say in what a woman does with her body.

Also, in the case of this girl, abortion was definitely the right thing. The rape in itself was traumatic enough, and then there's the fact that it was so dangerous. One would've been bad enough, but twins almost certainly would've killed her. While I don't like the idea of abortion I do agree that if a woman's life would be in danger, or say the baby has a disease or is deformed or something, then the mother has every right to choose. I don't find it very Christian like to tell a 9 year old girl that the lives of her rapist's unborn children are more important than hers.

I've also had quite a bit of experience with hardcore Christians. Listening to one makes my head hurt.

[Guest jj19]

I'm Pro-Life, but Pro-Choice.

I don't want people to have abortions, but they have every damn right to have them.