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Wilde_Guess

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  1. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Desiderius Price in How you should write your review.   
    As an author that gets almost no reviews… an “Atta boy Love this!” would be GREAT.  Mentioning points you like, wonderful.  If there’s something you don’t… butter it up on both sides with what did work/loved, sandwich in the bad, so it doesn’t come off utterly negative.
  2. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to WarrenTheConey in How you should write your review.   
    I have a sneaking suspicion, that people aren't leaving reviews, because they don't know what they should say in them.
    It's something that I asked myself about, when I wanted to leave a review on a story I enjoyed.
    I didn't want to just say 'good job', and I also wanted to avoid saying 'this is bad' or 'good', without being as objective as I could be.
    So, I sat down and thought about what things a reader and writer of fan-fiction, might want to know or should know, about a fan-fic.
    With this in mind, I wrote down a list of things that I may or may not put in a review, depending on whether or not I think it should be said.
    This is the list that I now use, when writing a review.
    ---
    Was this story good or bad overall? Could you recommend the story? Give at least a vague reason or example as to why, it was good or bad for you.
    Do the characters have, for the most part, 'clear' and 'reasonable' motivations that drive them to do what they are doing? If motives are in doubt, can you offer improvements to the motives of their characters?
    Is the story too, out of place, to be believable in the 'cannon' of that 'universe'? If it does feel out of place, can you offer an improvement, so the story doesn't feel out of line with the 'cannon' of that 'universe'?
    How is the wording and spelling? Is it difficult or easy to read through? If it is difficult to read through, can you offer a suggestion as to how the writer can improve on those?
    Does the story's title, description and tags, give the reader a clear idea of what the story may be about, without, spoiling the story? Can you offer advice on how to make these more clear, without, spoiling the story?
    What else, if anything, do you want the readers and/or the writer to know, about this story?
    ---
    These are of course, things that I felt would be important in a review, for both a reader and writer.
    I think this would be a good template for those who are looking to give an 'objective' review, but don't know where to start.
    Of course I'm always eager to hear other's thoughts and perspectives on the matter, and on the template I now use.
  3. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to WarrenTheConey in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    I posted my story with the proper tags, and a short description of what changes where made to the canon universe.
    I think I'll keep doing that from this point forward.
    Thanks for the advice everyone.
  4. Thanks
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from WarrenTheConey in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    Hi, all.
    To answer the original post first, I believe that you aren’t quite creating an original character from a “canon” character with a gender change, a change in “satisfaction” with the character’s birth gender, a change in the character’s sexual orientation, or a change in the character’s “sex drive” for lack of a better way to phrase it.  But, you are coming very close.
    Unless you’re writing your fanfiction work entirely within the canon confines of a “serial” original work, you are of necessity writing an alternate universe.  So, there will be “changes” rolling about.  But some changes are far more significant, or potentially jarring than others.  So, as an author you need to alert the reader somehow that you’re making very major changes to the status quo from the very beginning, and that they might not necessarily like the changes that you’ve made.
    Whether real human beings or fictional characters, we are far more than the sum of our gender, gender satisfaction, conventionality of expressing those, or the degree to which we seek to “perform” sexually.  However, all of those do shape us noticably as people, absent serious conscious effort to go contrary to our “natural” tendencies.  Thus, while you can portray Group Captain Jack Harkness as a genuine and absolute vow-following Catholic Priest, or Father Brown as an open and notorious cross-dressing sexual libertine, both characterizations would be far out-of-character when compared to their “original” counterparts, even if they would be “close enough” to get you sued by their “owners” if you tried to write about them for profit.  Even giving Father Brown a first name would be “Alternate Universe,” since G. K. Chesterton avoided ever giving his most profitable character a first name.  So, a story with either character would desperately need “content flags,” or whatever other means your publishing site(s) allow to not upset potential readers.  Some readers won’t like you out-of-character protagonists.  Others will adore them, and will read everything you write about them, provided that it is written well. 
    Everyone else here has also made wonderful points.  Whether you’re placing an actual character behind what was in canon “just a name,” or whether you are changing a “near-core” trait of a major character, or even an actual core trait, you are having to (re)create that character, and sometimes out of whole cloth.  So long as you inform the reader up-front that you’re doing so, no harm is done.  And, if you do it well, then your readers will be pleased and entertained.  Even turning up a character’s sex drive to eleven or down to three-quarters is a noticeable change.
    Fleshing out “just a name” characters can be more satisfying to the reader than completely inventing a new character.  But this still depends on fleshing out the character well.  Taking “mid-background” characters and fleshing them out without changing their (limited) appearance from canon can be even better.  And sometimes, the original content creator just wrote a character whose existence in canon is bat-shit insane; and “retconning” that character is actually a benefit to the reader.  An example of this that comes to mind is the “Fat Friar” from the Rowlingverse.
    As far as that goes, if you weren’t changing anything in your story, then it wouldn’t be fanfiction – it would be plagiarism.  So, “laissez le bon temps rouler” and write away, changes and all.  If you make Petunia and Vernon Dursley so totally accepting of Harry Potter that Petunia magically receives and gives birth to Harry’s full-blooded younger sibling and five or six additional children with Vernon, and the blood wards make the entire Little Whinging housing estate extraordinarily fecund, then go ahead.  There is exactly such a story on “St. Elsewhere,” and it’s actually very good.
    As a reader, I don’t like to be “surprised” by unexplained or “unadvertised” changes.  If I know about the “changes” going in, I might read (and possibly enjoy) the story anyway, or I might avoid it without feeling resentful, “cheated” or misled.  Of course, even being “advertised” up front, the changes still have to make some kind of sense, both in canon and in life itself.  So, odds are that I’m not going to read your gender-changed gender dysphoric full-Subcontinental Indian Harry Potter who grew up in rural South Carolina as an accordion and banjo prodigy who started Hogwarts at the age of sixteen, no matter how well you’ve written it.  But, there are plenty of readers who will read it if you’re up-front and honest about your changes.
    As a writer, I try to make every effort to “warn” the reader if there are major changes to “canon” characters beforehand.  Even so, some readers are only marginally capable of reading, period; and on some occasions will leave reviews telling you just that.  Those readers will never be satisfied, no matter how well you’ve written your story.  However, I can in good conscience ignore those readers, since if they were actually capable of reading, they were warned.
    Cheers!
  5. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Desiderius Price in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    Readers reading the tags?  How quaint.
  6. Like
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from Desiderius Price in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    Hi, all.
    To answer the original post first, I believe that you aren’t quite creating an original character from a “canon” character with a gender change, a change in “satisfaction” with the character’s birth gender, a change in the character’s sexual orientation, or a change in the character’s “sex drive” for lack of a better way to phrase it.  But, you are coming very close.
    Unless you’re writing your fanfiction work entirely within the canon confines of a “serial” original work, you are of necessity writing an alternate universe.  So, there will be “changes” rolling about.  But some changes are far more significant, or potentially jarring than others.  So, as an author you need to alert the reader somehow that you’re making very major changes to the status quo from the very beginning, and that they might not necessarily like the changes that you’ve made.
    Whether real human beings or fictional characters, we are far more than the sum of our gender, gender satisfaction, conventionality of expressing those, or the degree to which we seek to “perform” sexually.  However, all of those do shape us noticably as people, absent serious conscious effort to go contrary to our “natural” tendencies.  Thus, while you can portray Group Captain Jack Harkness as a genuine and absolute vow-following Catholic Priest, or Father Brown as an open and notorious cross-dressing sexual libertine, both characterizations would be far out-of-character when compared to their “original” counterparts, even if they would be “close enough” to get you sued by their “owners” if you tried to write about them for profit.  Even giving Father Brown a first name would be “Alternate Universe,” since G. K. Chesterton avoided ever giving his most profitable character a first name.  So, a story with either character would desperately need “content flags,” or whatever other means your publishing site(s) allow to not upset potential readers.  Some readers won’t like you out-of-character protagonists.  Others will adore them, and will read everything you write about them, provided that it is written well. 
    Everyone else here has also made wonderful points.  Whether you’re placing an actual character behind what was in canon “just a name,” or whether you are changing a “near-core” trait of a major character, or even an actual core trait, you are having to (re)create that character, and sometimes out of whole cloth.  So long as you inform the reader up-front that you’re doing so, no harm is done.  And, if you do it well, then your readers will be pleased and entertained.  Even turning up a character’s sex drive to eleven or down to three-quarters is a noticeable change.
    Fleshing out “just a name” characters can be more satisfying to the reader than completely inventing a new character.  But this still depends on fleshing out the character well.  Taking “mid-background” characters and fleshing them out without changing their (limited) appearance from canon can be even better.  And sometimes, the original content creator just wrote a character whose existence in canon is bat-shit insane; and “retconning” that character is actually a benefit to the reader.  An example of this that comes to mind is the “Fat Friar” from the Rowlingverse.
    As far as that goes, if you weren’t changing anything in your story, then it wouldn’t be fanfiction – it would be plagiarism.  So, “laissez le bon temps rouler” and write away, changes and all.  If you make Petunia and Vernon Dursley so totally accepting of Harry Potter that Petunia magically receives and gives birth to Harry’s full-blooded younger sibling and five or six additional children with Vernon, and the blood wards make the entire Little Whinging housing estate extraordinarily fecund, then go ahead.  There is exactly such a story on “St. Elsewhere,” and it’s actually very good.
    As a reader, I don’t like to be “surprised” by unexplained or “unadvertised” changes.  If I know about the “changes” going in, I might read (and possibly enjoy) the story anyway, or I might avoid it without feeling resentful, “cheated” or misled.  Of course, even being “advertised” up front, the changes still have to make some kind of sense, both in canon and in life itself.  So, odds are that I’m not going to read your gender-changed gender dysphoric full-Subcontinental Indian Harry Potter who grew up in rural South Carolina as an accordion and banjo prodigy who started Hogwarts at the age of sixteen, no matter how well you’ve written it.  But, there are plenty of readers who will read it if you’re up-front and honest about your changes.
    As a writer, I try to make every effort to “warn” the reader if there are major changes to “canon” characters beforehand.  Even so, some readers are only marginally capable of reading, period; and on some occasions will leave reviews telling you just that.  Those readers will never be satisfied, no matter how well you’ve written your story.  However, I can in good conscience ignore those readers, since if they were actually capable of reading, they were warned.
    Cheers!
  7. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Deadman in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    Yeah, I wasn’t necessarily saying you shouldn’t. Just putting forward my view of the issue. For me, I write a lot in the Buffy fandom. It wouldn’t make sense to have the main character be a male character.

    I wasn’t necessarily thinking of the gender bending as a plot point where a character was one gender and become another as part of the story. Mainly introducing a character from canon as a different gender.
  8. Haha
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Desiderius Price in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    That’s me adding an extra layer of complexity to a story
  9. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Desiderius Price in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    Some people want to do the thought experiment, the “what if” the original author penned the character differently.  We all do this to some degree, there’s an innate amount that’s subconscious as we write a fanfiction.  It’s most definitely out-of-canon, however, I certainly won’t berate anybody for doing it.  Heck, even in canon, might be a genderless name that can go either direction (Zabini Blaise comes to mind from the potter universe).  And a “gender bender” could add in some serious considerations…like what if the Dursleys abused Harry bad enough (some accident) that they forcibly “transitioned” Harry to hide it?  Or, maybe after Cedric Diggory’s death (or Sirius’), Harry shows up to Hogwarts demanding to use the girls bathroom while wearing dresses (to cope)?
  10. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Deadman in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    I would say so personally. I mean, most characters are the gender they are for a reason. Particularly if the character has appeared on screen, like most of mine have.

    So I prefer to create an OC rather than gender bend a character. Or I just shift the sexuality of the character. More than a few of the female characters I write about have intense relationships with other women. Though most of them aren’t explicitly lesbians. So occasionally I just give them a broader sexuality, usually bisexual.
  11. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to BronxWench in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    I have a tendency, when writing fan fiction, to take a fairly obscure character form canon and flesh them out, in essence creating a character where there was merely a placeholder. But as much as I create a back story, and use that obscure character in ways the original creator would never have anticipated, I always have it in the back of my head that this isn’t my character. It’s my perception of (or perhaps aspiration for) the original author’s work.
    I think @Desiderius Price has a point in saying this is a step towards being able to write original characters for someone who hasn’t taken that leap before, much in the way writing fan fiction in general teaches the necessity of plot, and character arcs, and so on.
    Now, from the moderation standpoint, many readers absolutely hate genderbent characters, or characters that are seriously out of character, which is why those tags do matter. Other fandoms make a cottage industry from swapping genders of main characters. Either way, as long as there’s a proper tag, readers are forewarned (if they stop to read the tags).
  12. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Desiderius Price in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    To me, gender bending would be a step toward the characterization skills needed for original characters.  I’d suspect that an older abbreviation “OOC” (out-of-character or out-of-canon) would definitely fit this scenario, as gender bending is a specific modification of that canon character, but it’s still based on a canon character.  Some canon characters are...like a name only, so lots of fanfic writers take one of those and fill in the details.  Obviously, if I hit the random name generator, create all new details, and insert that, it’s an original character (and I’ve done that repeatedly with my fanfic where I need characters).
  13. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to WarrenTheConey in Isn't a 'gender swap', essentially making a new character?   
    As an obsessive perfectionist, I find that I'm constantly over thinking things and constantly marring my work, by focusing on things that don't need the extra attention.
    In a few days, I'm sure I'll have the free time to finish and post a new story in the archive.
    I looked at the story codes and started thinking, (obsessing needlessly), about two tags in particular. GB - the gender bender tag, and OC - the original character tag.
    This really made me wonder, wouldn't a gender bender character, also count as an original character?
    I'm interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on what makes an 'original character', in the face of such a change. How much can that character change, before that character is considered, a different character?
  14. Thanks
    Wilde_Guess reacted to BronxWench in Beware This Patreon Plagiarist!   
    One of our members, Sessakag, has had the unfortunate experience of finding their story posted without permission on this site:  https://www.patreon.com/WhatIfFanfics/collections. 
    The stories that have been used are largely in the Naruto fandom, although there are some crossovers as well. 
    The worst part? It's behind a paywall. That's right--this plagiarist expects you to pay $10 to listen a story published by the actual author for free right here on AFF. See, that's the plagiarist's hook. These are AUDIO copies. Now, mind you, this plagiarist had their YouTube account suspended, most likely for the very same thing, but they don't seem able to learn their lesson.
    If your story has been stolen, Patreon wants you to reach out to the "creator" on Patreon and ask them to be nice and take it down. If that doesn't work, they also suggest filing a DMCA takedown notice (https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/208377833). The catch is that you need a Patreon account to report the stolen content. However, the more times this thief is reported, the more likely it is that Patreon will be forced to take action.
    I want to send a huge thank you to Sessakag for reporting this to us. Even if AFF can't tell Patreon how to run their site, we can be proud of our members, who respect the hard work put into creating the fan fictions we all enjoy.
     
    UPDATE:
    Patreon responded quickly to the DMCA request from Sessakag, and removed the story from the Patreon page, although the account hasn't been suspended. If you too have been a victim, please go and file that DMCA takedown notice with Patreon!
    ANOTHER UPDATE:
    It seems there are now YouTube videos where this person reads a story aloud, so they haven’t learned their lesson from the first YouTube suspension. If your story was used here, please report it and file a DMCA takedown request.
  15. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to BronxWench in How to add tags after posting?   
    At the moment, the ability to add tags after posting a story isn’t working. Our coder is aware of it, and she’s working on it. Hopefully, we can get this working again, but in the meantime, using the Author’s Note to add tags is perfect.
     
  16. Like
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from Deadman in Major Character Death Tag?   
    Hi, @BronxWench and all.
    Third Time’s a Soul Bond is a “fix-it,” time-travel, etc.  Delores Umbridge “Darwins out” in Chapter 1.  However,
    The Yankee’s Nephew and the Philosopher’s Stone, which might get a title change if I run the entire “HP Hogwarts Experience” into the one story, is actually a crossover between my original story Riding the Lincoln Way, plus every JKR and licensee story that takes place between 1975-2021.  I’ve already “gotten rid of” ten major Lincoln Way characters, plus Peter Pettegrew, who is a key minor character in Hogwarts Mystery, above and beyond what he won’t be around to do when Harry finally makes it to school.  I’m also only up to Chapter 11 on Yankee’s Nephew, and Harry isn’t quite three years old.  I did manage to ‘save’ three Lincoln Way characters who in Lincoln Way died off-screen.
    Third Time has the MiCD tag.  I forgot to (have added by you when you fixed it last time) either MiCD or MCD to Yankee’s Nephew. 
    Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and assistance.
  17. Like
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from Deadman in Major Character Death Tag?   
    Hi, Deadman and all.
    That is a brilliant question, and I’m sure that you aren’t the only one who needs to know.  While I haven’t “killed off” any of the Golden Trio in any of my HP crossovers, I have killed off a villain or few ‘early’ in both of the big ones.  And, I might even un-kill a ghost or few before I’m done, too.
    @BronxWench? 
    Thanks in advance.
  18. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to BronxWench in Major Character Death Tag?   
    There are two options. If the character is central to the story, even if they die offstage, so to speak, I‘d recommend the Major Character Death (MCD) tag. If the character is not central to the story, you could use the Minor Character Death (MiCD) tag, to alert readers to the death of a character without having them pull their hair out over losing one of the stars of the canon.
  19. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Deadman in Major Character Death Tag?   
    Just curious about the major character death tag.

    I have a story in which a character death happens in between two chapters. It’s mentioned but it’s not necessarily part of the story. The character does appear in a chapter of the story. Basically, between the two chapters is about a year of canon in which the character died.

    Should I be putting the tag on my story?
  20. Like
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from Deadman in Stories without sex in the first chapter?   
    Hi, @Deadman, @Desiderius Price, and all.
    I would have to agree with Desiderius more, though I also see your point.  We’ve been talking more about the explicitness of sex, sexuality, and sexual tension versus whether to have any “s, s, and st” at all.
    There are some stories where “s, s, and st” just don’t belong.  There are others where you can’t possibly avoid at least some of that.  But, how explicit do you want or feel the need to get?
    In “Star Wars Episode Two,” the screen writers don’t show what Annikin Skywalker does to the Tuskan Raiders.  Instead, they have a deeply traumatized Annikin relate what he did to them to Padme, in the very scene after they show him cut his way out of the tent where he held his mother while she died.  In that case, the violence was made even more real by not being directly shown to the viewer.
    In the case of your (potential if not already written) stories, you don’t need to remove, and probably should keep the “lead-up” to the sex scenes, and even include the sex participant’s internal thoughts about their circumstances, however explicitly you describe their assignations.  This would, if you do it right, increase both the eroticism and drama of each scene, whether you got to near-clinical explicitness about ‘how each of her pubic hairs curled differently when anointed with the dew of their passion,’ or how he was packing ‘double-Peroni-Bologna that anointed her between her belly button and sternum before he planted it vigorously in...’ or simply faded to black while they kissed passionately even while unfastening each other’s belts and jeans.
    Explicit sex without any explanation or leading tension is not just pornography, it’s typically mediocre pornography at best, even in print.  So, Elliot and Karen started randomly and explicitly copulating on the courthouse steps.  Okay, why did they start doing that where and when they did?  If you try to answer that question, then you’ve bridged the gap between the ‘wank-o-thon’ and an actual story.  If you do it well, people will want to read it.  Or, if you’re only going for the ‘wank-o-thon’ readers, leave the ‘excess’ prose in the bit bucket of your word processor of choice.
    Cheers!
  21. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Desiderius Price in Stories without sex in the first chapter?   
    I’ve used my potter fanfic as an example because it’s always intended to have a low/high road type of feeling, a plot-focused and more sex-infused versions, but with FF.net’s shenanigans regarding explicit material, and a review, I had shifted to plot-focused only.  After my disastrous edit (the one that produced a 107kword CHAPTER), I had dabbled with “smutting it back up”, using styles/colors in libreoffice.  And TBH, that felt tacky, because it was, as the sexual bit is an afterthought, not part of the process.
    When I returned to revise and realized it needed to be rewritten, I of course, flexed my programmer hat, created my little utility.  As I rewrite, I can consider the implications of both the sexual and plot sides of the story, together; so in a discussion with Dumbledore over a new breed of bats, it can be an ordinary conversation (well, ordinary for the story) … Harry’s stark naked in the explicit, so comment on his todger, whereas he’s implicitly dressed in the cleaner version.
    Explicit’s become more than smut, it also allows for me to go deeper.  So, Harry’s scar, after Voldemort learned of its existence, Harry had trouble keeping Voldemort out… he learned he had the strongest power to repel Voldemort by having gay sex.  After a while, Harry learns to keep it in balance with memories of it, however, in a scene I wrote yesterday, I had Voldemort go stronger than ever; not sure who was more surprised by that scene, myself or Fred Weasley.   I can explore Ash’s (OC) little nudist group, one that arose because of Ash’s insecurities and his steadfast belief in Harry’s innocence.  I can explore Ginny’s fangirl lust for Harry, to the point of schemes to snag him (Ron’s accidentally bitten that bullet more than once for Harry).
    I do worry about the cleaner becoming a second class story to the explicit one, given the efforts I put in.  Though I find it easier and less tacky, overall to clean up an explicit scene, versus smutting up a clean scene.
  22. Like
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from BronxWench in Stories without sex in the first chapter?   
    Hi, @Deadman, @Desiderius Price, and all.
    I would have to agree with Desiderius more, though I also see your point.  We’ve been talking more about the explicitness of sex, sexuality, and sexual tension versus whether to have any “s, s, and st” at all.
    There are some stories where “s, s, and st” just don’t belong.  There are others where you can’t possibly avoid at least some of that.  But, how explicit do you want or feel the need to get?
    In “Star Wars Episode Two,” the screen writers don’t show what Annikin Skywalker does to the Tuskan Raiders.  Instead, they have a deeply traumatized Annikin relate what he did to them to Padme, in the very scene after they show him cut his way out of the tent where he held his mother while she died.  In that case, the violence was made even more real by not being directly shown to the viewer.
    In the case of your (potential if not already written) stories, you don’t need to remove, and probably should keep the “lead-up” to the sex scenes, and even include the sex participant’s internal thoughts about their circumstances, however explicitly you describe their assignations.  This would, if you do it right, increase both the eroticism and drama of each scene, whether you got to near-clinical explicitness about ‘how each of her pubic hairs curled differently when anointed with the dew of their passion,’ or how he was packing ‘double-Peroni-Bologna that anointed her between her belly button and sternum before he planted it vigorously in...’ or simply faded to black while they kissed passionately even while unfastening each other’s belts and jeans.
    Explicit sex without any explanation or leading tension is not just pornography, it’s typically mediocre pornography at best, even in print.  So, Elliot and Karen started randomly and explicitly copulating on the courthouse steps.  Okay, why did they start doing that where and when they did?  If you try to answer that question, then you’ve bridged the gap between the ‘wank-o-thon’ and an actual story.  If you do it well, people will want to read it.  Or, if you’re only going for the ‘wank-o-thon’ readers, leave the ‘excess’ prose in the bit bucket of your word processor of choice.
    Cheers!
  23. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Deadman in Stories without sex in the first chapter?   
    Yes, that was a typo. I intended to say “non-sex” which is how AFF tends to categories things. If you’re writing a more traditional narrative story where the point isn’t necessarily the sex, it goes under “non-sex”.

    So my intent there is for it to be that I would have 20-30 pages of non-sex plot before getting to the sex stuff.
  24. Like
    Wilde_Guess got a reaction from Deadman in Stories without sex in the first chapter?   
    Hi, all.
    I hope that it was just a typo, with 20-30 pages of “non story.”  With a “typical” word count of roughly 220 words on a “page,” that would be almost five thousand words of nothing.
    @Desiderius Price, when I’m talking “clean vs dirty,” I’m also describing the detail.  in once scene of Yankee’s Nephew, I have two characters play strip poker, start a relatively tame BDSM spanking, and then quit and talk about what ‘she’ wants to do with ‘him’ instead before fading to black.  I also join several couples after the act, wearing “only each other.”  This hasn’t been ‘scandalous’ since the 1950s or so in the United States.  In a “dirty” story, I leave almost nothing to the reader’s imagination.
    If I wrote the @GeorgeGlass inspired short story I’m Your Ass, I could easily write it either ‘no-sex,’ or a very explicit M/M M/F Pegging story, especially since Amir has a nightstick.
    Cheers! 
  25. Like
    Wilde_Guess reacted to Deadman in Stories without sex in the first chapter?   
    I appreciate it for sure.

    For details, most of my stuff here involve at least 5-15 pages of story before the sex actually happens in the story.

    However, for this story it would probably by 20-30 pages and either will have sex around page 25. Or I could just have 20-30 pages of non story, then chapter 2 will be the sex stuff.
     
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