Tcr

I, too, prefer the antagonist to be realistic.  It makes it more heroic (shall we say) when the protagonist final overcomes them.  I definitely have to agree that operating from the different point of view and doing what is ‘right’, a technical view that is quite subjective, thus working quite well in describing their mindset, is a good way to make them real.  Real people make decisions all the time that otherwise lead to the ‘right’ or ‘wrong’.
An example that comes to mind for that is actually, strangely, from Star Trek. ST: Nemesis, for anyone not versed in this, has a clone of Jean-Luc Picard as the villain of the piece.  While not the greatest and most powerful villain in the franchise (that, by far, has to be Khan from Wrath Of Khan…  Okay, digress finished...), it does provide the example…  Shinzon’s backstory falls into a series of backstories that describe his rough upbringing under horrendous conditions, thus leading him to lead a coup and murder off the government and take control…  Et cetera, et cetera…  Whereas Picard’s choices reflect the good within the UFP…  Shinzon’s reflects the darker choices…  ‘For now we see in a mirror darkly’, the view of what could have been had situations been different.
To me, that’s what makes a good villain, a good opposite to the hero.  The ‘what could have been if things were just a little different in the hero’s life.
Those that believe they are doing right, too, make for a good antagonist, whether that comes from some deep religious beliefs, malformed opinions based of the propaganda and hate, or justice/revenge, as you’ve pointed out.  It brings a human element to them, makes them relatable.  And, to me, at least, a relatable villain is, by far, the better one.(
(Sorry if this is rambling, disorganized, and incoherent…  Maybe this is a sign not to answer after being up all night...)

So...  While watching a truly terrible movie and writing my own, I had a thought.  Watching the antagonist, a mere caricature and, admittedly, boring in that regards, I started thinking to myself, ‘How?’  Obviously someone had to be paid to...  Dare I say write this villain?  I’m not sure that’s capable of being said.  I’m pretty sure whoever put him in there looked in a dictionary under villain and took all the cliches...  Which is not always a bad thing...   So, coupled with a bit of a discussion with my beta regarding the same ideas within the last few weeks (has it been longer?  Maybe longer...  Either way...)  I kind of examined my own antagonists (mostly minor in terms of the overall story at this point) and began seeing that most of what CR and I had discussed had already been put into place.  Some minor tweaks here and there, a few added things into the character, a couple odd search topics in Google...  And a very questionable, yet still lacking detail report regarding said character that is currently saved on my computer...  Hopefully, the minor antagonist in Chapter V has taken on a new life that is not a cartoony version of hyenas marching...  At least, I’m happy with the way it’s turned out.   I’d like to think that I added enough to humanize, dare I say relate to (a scary thought, I know), that character.  Those little bits that develop a personality, at least in terms of this one, and create a living breathing antagonist and not a two-dimensional paper cut out as I had seen within the movie...   So, then, thoughts abounded...  And perhaps could help other people in writing their own antagonists...   How does everyone else create their antagonists?   Now that I’ve rambled on and on and on long enough to bore people to death...  I’d like to hear your ideas, thoughts, writing processes, and maybe there’s someone else who will benefit outright as well...

I’m pretty sure everyone who writes has a story like that.  I, personally, love the 3rd Omniscient as it allows me to explore a wild, wide variety of both the characters and events as they unfold without having the worry about keeping Joe Blow from Idaho in the middle of everything.  I read a book where this author wanted to keep his character involved in every major point in that universe (reference point, Star Wars).  It came off really jumbled and confuzzled (yes, I’m using that word, it’s going to be the next Quiz!); especially when the events were like: He has no reason to be there…  But this kind of got off the rails here…
Yes, the balance of the Non-English to Reader Patience is always a tricky subject.  I do provide a translation in the main text, usually from one of the other characters or just after they say it, in order to not have people running throughout a book trying to find out what it means. (ie.  ”Jin se kahlo.” I love you.)  But I do understand what you’re saying.
Obviously, I’m in the minority here in loving to see alien languages that show a rich culture and not just someone who wants an alien without having to background anything (…  I’m looking at you TOS...)…  In my somewhat outnumbered opinion, the development of a language shows a culture and, especially if the MC is an alien interacting with humans, would not, necessarily, use English (as an example) in every day conversation, either.  Am I just rambling?  I feel like I’m rambling...  I’m probably not making sense either…  Working nights really does a number on brain cells...

Recently, I had a conversation with a friend regarding the use of other languages within a written work (ostensibly written in English in this case, although it could be expanded to include English in any other language novels).  In this case, I was discussing the entire language created by myself for Blood Prize (Straxian).  The discussion turned to how much of a different language is too much.
I have nigh an English-Straxi Dictionary going on in my files specifically for the use of this.  Not to mention the creation of gender nominative words and sentence structures.  (Does this make me insane?  Probably...)
To me, if the language is used correctly, it can add to a background and cultural aspect of a character and race.  The use of a different language from English (in this case) allows me the immersion into said culture and the novel.  Admittedly, I don’t want sixteen chapters of a language I don’t understand, but the occasional touch or even exchange in (and I’ll just use mine) Straxi is a reminder that this isn’t human and that the other people do have their own history.
But…  How much is too much for you?  How far do you go in order to create a language for your tale?  Have you or would you create one?  I’d like to hear your thoughts.

So, a few days ago, a friend and I were talking about this sort of idea.  The discussion for this thread, though, is more a case of how many OC characters do you like in your fan fiction before it gets turned off?
In the case of the only fanfiction I have up here, which is that of a Star Trek Online, aside from a few ‘cameos’ here and there, the cast is entirely original characters.  The conversation between us was a discussion about how a lot of people would be turned off by that sort of story, which I do accept and actually kind of agree with (strangely, considering...), but how many OC characters in a fanfiction turn you off?  Would it turn you away from that particular story or does it even matter?
Giving my thoughts on the matter as a writer, I don’t really like using canon characters because I, personally, feel forced into a tiny box to keep them in character.  As a reader, if the canon characters in a fanfiction don’t feel particularly right (given deviations accounted for in regards to whatever the story is being told; ie, sexual stories, I can give leeway in canon characters being different than author portrayed (if this makes sense...).  It’s a major reason why I didn’t include any in the main cast of characters for STA.  That said, as a reader, I do understand why someone could, potentially, be turned away if there are no canonical characters.  (I feel like I’m rambling, so my apologies.)

So, a few days ago, a friend and I were talking about this sort of idea.  The discussion for this thread, though, is more a case of how many OC characters do you like in your fan fiction before it gets turned off?
In the case of the only fanfiction I have up here, which is that of a Star Trek Online, aside from a few ‘cameos’ here and there, the cast is entirely original characters.  The conversation between us was a discussion about how a lot of people would be turned off by that sort of story, which I do accept and actually kind of agree with (strangely, considering...), but how many OC characters in a fanfiction turn you off?  Would it turn you away from that particular story or does it even matter?
Giving my thoughts on the matter as a writer, I don’t really like using canon characters because I, personally, feel forced into a tiny box to keep them in character.  As a reader, if the canon characters in a fanfiction don’t feel particularly right (given deviations accounted for in regards to whatever the story is being told; ie, sexual stories, I can give leeway in canon characters being different than author portrayed (if this makes sense...).  It’s a major reason why I didn’t include any in the main cast of characters for STA.  That said, as a reader, I do understand why someone could, potentially, be turned away if there are no canonical characters.  (I feel like I’m rambling, so my apologies.)

So, a few days ago, a friend and I were talking about this sort of idea.  The discussion for this thread, though, is more a case of how many OC characters do you like in your fan fiction before it gets turned off?
In the case of the only fanfiction I have up here, which is that of a Star Trek Online, aside from a few ‘cameos’ here and there, the cast is entirely original characters.  The conversation between us was a discussion about how a lot of people would be turned off by that sort of story, which I do accept and actually kind of agree with (strangely, considering...), but how many OC characters in a fanfiction turn you off?  Would it turn you away from that particular story or does it even matter?
Giving my thoughts on the matter as a writer, I don’t really like using canon characters because I, personally, feel forced into a tiny box to keep them in character.  As a reader, if the canon characters in a fanfiction don’t feel particularly right (given deviations accounted for in regards to whatever the story is being told; ie, sexual stories, I can give leeway in canon characters being different than author portrayed (if this makes sense...).  It’s a major reason why I didn’t include any in the main cast of characters for STA.  That said, as a reader, I do understand why someone could, potentially, be turned away if there are no canonical characters.  (I feel like I’m rambling, so my apologies.)

Well, in answer to the question: I listen to them to a certain point.  I've had plenty of trolls lately (Not here, but some others) and a few really good, in depth reviews.  For me, listening to the reviews is a good way to gauge the readership (if you get good, non-troll ones).  Sometimes, it can be good in terms of assisting an idea to its fullest potential or correcting some minor errors.  (Something like the one first posted here, not helpful, in my opinion.)
As has been said, your style is yours.  You decide how you want to write it.  Taking, for example, George R.R. Martin: I cannot get into his writing...  I cannot for the life of me, but he's doing a little fine (yes, sarcasm, my third language) for himself.  And way to go for him.  To have someone change that to, say, DP's style, or BW, or mine would take away things people do like about it.  And if one person has a problem with your style, then maybe they shouldn't be reading it.
As for reviews, when I leave one, I do a good-concrit-good idea.  But I make sure it's not stupid concrit or nitpicky to begin with.
I hope I'm making sense...

Well, in answer to the question: I listen to them to a certain point.  I've had plenty of trolls lately (Not here, but some others) and a few really good, in depth reviews.  For me, listening to the reviews is a good way to gauge the readership (if you get good, non-troll ones).  Sometimes, it can be good in terms of assisting an idea to its fullest potential or correcting some minor errors.  (Something like the one first posted here, not helpful, in my opinion.)
As has been said, your style is yours.  You decide how you want to write it.  Taking, for example, George R.R. Martin: I cannot get into his writing...  I cannot for the life of me, but he's doing a little fine (yes, sarcasm, my third language) for himself.  And way to go for him.  To have someone change that to, say, DP's style, or BW, or mine would take away things people do like about it.  And if one person has a problem with your style, then maybe they shouldn't be reading it.
As for reviews, when I leave one, I do a good-concrit-good idea.  But I make sure it's not stupid concrit or nitpicky to begin with.
I hope I'm making sense...

I hadn't noticed.  Lol.
I think it all depends on the writer.  An 'elegant solution' written by the blunt force writer won't really work that well, even well written, because of the style.  Which I'm probably repeating…
I think, too, it depends a lot on what sort of feeling You, as writer, want to convey.  A quick death can be intense, fast, and portray a "blink and you miss it" situation.  A slow one can also be intense, but be meant to show a devastating death that's meant to linger in the minds of the reader.
Maybe I shouldn't answer when tired...

I hadn't noticed.  Lol.
I think it all depends on the writer.  An 'elegant solution' written by the blunt force writer won't really work that well, even well written, because of the style.  Which I'm probably repeating…
I think, too, it depends a lot on what sort of feeling You, as writer, want to convey.  A quick death can be intense, fast, and portray a "blink and you miss it" situation.  A slow one can also be intense, but be meant to show a devastating death that's meant to linger in the minds of the reader.
Maybe I shouldn't answer when tired...

I hadn't noticed.  Lol.
I think it all depends on the writer.  An 'elegant solution' written by the blunt force writer won't really work that well, even well written, because of the style.  Which I'm probably repeating…
I think, too, it depends a lot on what sort of feeling You, as writer, want to convey.  A quick death can be intense, fast, and portray a "blink and you miss it" situation.  A slow one can also be intense, but be meant to show a devastating death that's meant to linger in the minds of the reader.
Maybe I shouldn't answer when tired...

So, let’s not pretend this is me having an epiphany…  This is me procrastinating with a good question…  lol.
So, as I come to the end to one of the many stories I have here…  The major climax that leads to the denouement and subsequent finale and goodbye is becoming a pain in the ass to write.  I’ve been finding myself having trouble writing some deaths of characters that are both minor and major characters in the tale and have, hopefully, been good enough to warrant someone actually cheering for survival…  It’s problematic…  on every level.
So, my question, since I’m going to make a wild assumption that everyone grows attached to their characters (...we’re writers, I’m pretty sure we all do this…  Even Bob...)…  How do you all murder your characters?  Do you struggle with it?  Prefer it quick and simple as the end grows near or do you prefer long, drawn out deaths?  Do you find yourselves procrastinating?  Or is just an easy decision, like putting toast in the toaster?

@CloverReefI think I remember that scene, you were in the zone at that time.  You were all like “I’m starting it” and then it was like “I’m done it!”  I was like…  Damn, that tornado blew through pretty fast.
And I definitely agree with the attachment to the characters.  I have grown attached to mine (even if I’m unsure anyone else has) and, beyond any measure of doubt, it makes it really hard with this scene.  Because I kind of don’t want to, but it also has to be done for various storytelling points and because I set it up throughout the last few chapters with that intention.  And it’s a really painful time to write (even if she isn’t an MC...)
But I wholeheartedly agree with that idea of high emotions and tensions.  In the one I referenced for me, it’s a scene that, in the last moments of the character, truly defines them, which makes it a highly emotional and highly important moment for said character.  I guess I’m always worried that those are the scenes that are going to fail badly in getting the point and the emotion across.  If that makes sense.  Because if it’s just another character death, then it’s a ‘meh’ sort of reaction.  (Which doesn’t intend to sound as bad as it probably does...)

@Desiderius PriceAll my characters I grow attached to.  Although I don’t entirely think that I’ve used this one as much as I probably could have.  She’s become more of a background character with higher importance (...does that make sense?  It makes sense to me...).  But the manner of death here is just…  Heroically emotionally painful…  So I’m procrastinating writing it.  lol.

So, let’s not pretend this is me having an epiphany…  This is me procrastinating with a good question…  lol.
So, as I come to the end to one of the many stories I have here…  The major climax that leads to the denouement and subsequent finale and goodbye is becoming a pain in the ass to write.  I’ve been finding myself having trouble writing some deaths of characters that are both minor and major characters in the tale and have, hopefully, been good enough to warrant someone actually cheering for survival…  It’s problematic…  on every level.
So, my question, since I’m going to make a wild assumption that everyone grows attached to their characters (...we’re writers, I’m pretty sure we all do this…  Even Bob...)…  How do you all murder your characters?  Do you struggle with it?  Prefer it quick and simple as the end grows near or do you prefer long, drawn out deaths?  Do you find yourselves procrastinating?  Or is just an easy decision, like putting toast in the toaster?

So, let’s not pretend this is me having an epiphany…  This is me procrastinating with a good question…  lol.
So, as I come to the end to one of the many stories I have here…  The major climax that leads to the denouement and subsequent finale and goodbye is becoming a pain in the ass to write.  I’ve been finding myself having trouble writing some deaths of characters that are both minor and major characters in the tale and have, hopefully, been good enough to warrant someone actually cheering for survival…  It’s problematic…  on every level.
So, my question, since I’m going to make a wild assumption that everyone grows attached to their characters (...we’re writers, I’m pretty sure we all do this…  Even Bob...)…  How do you all murder your characters?  Do you struggle with it?  Prefer it quick and simple as the end grows near or do you prefer long, drawn out deaths?  Do you find yourselves procrastinating?  Or is just an easy decision, like putting toast in the toaster?

...and As usual, TCR is late for the party!...  Everyone's gone...  Damn it…
From everything I've read, I'll probably end up repeating things here.  But...  Repeating is my middle name, so…
Honestly, I feel this whole blog editing advice is bull for this.  Ending it to make up for a lack of style?  Huh, wonder if anyone told King or Crichton or any number of other major authors that used a slamming door or other (as much as it wasn't used in the post) over the top actions?  If, and this has been pointed out, the character in question is naturally hot headed and prone to outburst, or even if they aren't but emotionally it has set them off in that way so it feels natural, then a slammed door is a good indication.
This isn't lazy or a lack of style, this is making a human character be human.  Humans are, mostly, emotional creatures, for better and worse, and, as such, react emotionally.  If it's set up that A has pissed B off to the point B is fuming like an erupting volcano, then have B erupt.  
That said, in my questionable opinion, it has to be set up properly.  Having an argument that reads like a pair of old grandmas having tea end with a door slam probably isn't the most likely…
That said, I'll stop rambling now.

...and As usual, TCR is late for the party!...  Everyone's gone...  Damn it…
From everything I've read, I'll probably end up repeating things here.  But...  Repeating is my middle name, so…
Honestly, I feel this whole blog editing advice is bull for this.  Ending it to make up for a lack of style?  Huh, wonder if anyone told King or Crichton or any number of other major authors that used a slamming door or other (as much as it wasn't used in the post) over the top actions?  If, and this has been pointed out, the character in question is naturally hot headed and prone to outburst, or even if they aren't but emotionally it has set them off in that way so it feels natural, then a slammed door is a good indication.
This isn't lazy or a lack of style, this is making a human character be human.  Humans are, mostly, emotional creatures, for better and worse, and, as such, react emotionally.  If it's set up that A has pissed B off to the point B is fuming like an erupting volcano, then have B erupt.  
That said, in my questionable opinion, it has to be set up properly.  Having an argument that reads like a pair of old grandmas having tea end with a door slam probably isn't the most likely…
That said, I'll stop rambling now.

Way to go, congrats, crack out the celebration and...  Well, you've probably done all that anyway.  Great news and .

I had to think about this a bit, but stopping writing altogether is not the way to stop the stagnation. That only ossifies the problem and makes it even harder to start again. I think stagnation is another flavor of block. I think a writer or two that I really liked in an earlier fandom, kept reskinning the same period and setting. The writing was still good, the new leads had  different issues, but the spark was either missing in the writing or the reading-repeating. If you don’t figure out why you’re in a rut, you will just repeat that cycle later in a new rut… until you find the off-ramp by luck. Some paperback writers make solid careers of a marketable rut.
Stopping writing is like selling your car because you’re sick of the daily commute to work. It misses the issue with dramatic overkill. It only makes new problems, especially if you live somewhere without a good rapid transit.
Is the stagnation because you keep writing the same kind of story over and over? (does it shift back to ‘a script’) Or because no noticeably different stories appeal to your muse? (you can’t force your right brain to follow your logical plans)  Listen to that muse, it doesn’t speak clearly, but it gets bored in ruts. Look for fresh air in a new fandom, new genres, or even strike out into original works to sell. Those will refresh everything.
The basic romance that is the core of a large portion of fanfic is a formula, a rut, but that doesn’t mean you have to feel stagnant.  Pride and Prejudice are as much in the genre as Twilight, so there is a LOT of elbow room in that genre.
A new penname is only useful if your fans will not be willing to accept a change in your writing.  And maintaining them as separate can be a lot of work, and alienate them anyway. One writer I liked their earlier penname better, and since then they abandoned that subgenre, I’ve gradually stopped reading them and the newer ones are really in ruts.  Chasing after the other pennames got too confusing and tiring. (I plan to keep only two, fanfic and original fic) 
If all you write are kidnapping hedgehogs and are thinking of changing but afraid your fans won’t accept your story of stopping the evil milkmaid empire, start with a smaller story to test it. Your fans may surprise you and thrive on buttermilk! (this was supposed to be a short answer but...)
 

That’s an interesting (and kinda depressing) take on it. I’m not sure that I agree that it’s the only way to avoid stagnation. I think if you feel stagnation setting in, taking a break as I think you’re suggesting, is absolutely one way to handle it. Take time away so you can come back and look at things with fresh eyes, but it’s not the only option. You can fend it off by taking risks, writing in a different genre, or indulge in something you wouldn’t normally indulge in. For some writers, writing exercises and prompts help. 
Also, I just wanna say I love your definitions. 

That's a good point there.  It's something I try to do with mine on every chance.  (Come Hell or High Water, for instance, doesn't have any sex until Chapter 21, but it flowed organically (at least, I thought) and worked in the context of the story.)  I don't see the idea of "too much sex" so much as "does it fit naturally with everything in the story up to that point (I kind of broke that with Blood and Honour, but yeah.)

Se ijin shan Erisiche halshaten?  And what, are you saying I don’t write epic alien languages that leave you breathlessly wanting more language from them?  ;).  But, yes, I do agree that the author probably shouldn’t have an entire chapter between characters speaking different languages without A.) established the language to the point that it is understood (there’s a great scene in STIII that actually illustrates this well, but no one wants to hear that, I’m sure...) or B.) having some way that they can translate without pulling someone out of the story in such a time.  And in highly romantic or emotional scenes, there’s definitely a point where the conversations should be understood, preferably in a language that’s understood…  

I’m pretty sure everyone who writes has a story like that.  I, personally, love the 3rd Omniscient as it allows me to explore a wild, wide variety of both the characters and events as they unfold without having the worry about keeping Joe Blow from Idaho in the middle of everything.  I read a book where this author wanted to keep his character involved in every major point in that universe (reference point, Star Wars).  It came off really jumbled and confuzzled (yes, I’m using that word, it’s going to be the next Quiz!); especially when the events were like: He has no reason to be there…  But this kind of got off the rails here…
Yes, the balance of the Non-English to Reader Patience is always a tricky subject.  I do provide a translation in the main text, usually from one of the other characters or just after they say it, in order to not have people running throughout a book trying to find out what it means. (ie.  ”Jin se kahlo.” I love you.)  But I do understand what you’re saying.
Obviously, I’m in the minority here in loving to see alien languages that show a rich culture and not just someone who wants an alien without having to background anything (…  I’m looking at you TOS...)…  In my somewhat outnumbered opinion, the development of a language shows a culture and, especially if the MC is an alien interacting with humans, would not, necessarily, use English (as an example) in every day conversation, either.  Am I just rambling?  I feel like I’m rambling...  I’m probably not making sense either…  Working nights really does a number on brain cells...

Se ijin shan Erisiche halshaten?  And what, are you saying I don’t write epic alien languages that leave you breathlessly wanting more language from them?  ;).  But, yes, I do agree that the author probably shouldn’t have an entire chapter between characters speaking different languages without A.) established the language to the point that it is understood (there’s a great scene in STIII that actually illustrates this well, but no one wants to hear that, I’m sure...) or B.) having some way that they can translate without pulling someone out of the story in such a time.  And in highly romantic or emotional scenes, there’s definitely a point where the conversations should be understood, preferably in a language that’s understood…