I HATE YAOI

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I HATE YAOI!

It is a simple, plain fact.

This, however, is not to say that I don’t write and read fan fiction centered around homosexual relationships. Quite the contrary, in fact, I love and. However, YAOI is not one of my… things.

What is the difference, you ask?

YAOI originated in Japan during the 20th century. Prior to this genre in fiction, there were many “boy-love” stories that ran on a basic “boy meets samurai” template. However, with the coming of the 20th century and westernization, homosexuality amongst males was no longer considered “expectable behavior,” therefore the “boy-love” stories were no longer made.

Women, then, began writing “YAOI.” YAOI is an acronym for a phrase that, in English, translates to “without climax, without punch line, without meaning.” This basically says that YAOI is porn without plot.

Furthermore, YAOI is also defined, from it’s origins, as being “by women, for women.” This means pretty, girly boys. In fact, YAOI represents little in the way of actual, realistic homosexual relationships. Instead, the genre is concentrated with stereotypical “boy meets girl” romance novel plot devices. They simply replace the “girl” with “androgynous/girly boy/flat-chested-chick-with-dick.”

I, personally, am sick of almost every other story I come across fitting this category. Yeah, I suppose you can say “well, if you don’t like it, don’t read it.”

Well, yeah, I suppose that works. But, when a good three fourths of the male/male stories I come across are like this, it’s pretty hard to avoid. I prefer a little reality with my homosexual relationship, thank you much. Now, this is not to say I hate people enjoy this sort of thing, but I’m just not one of them. Yeah, pretty boys are all well and good, but I began reading homo-erotica to get away from the crappy romance novel molds. Not so I can read them with gender-benders.

[StoryJunkie]

Yeah, when I'm rubbin up against the tree, I ain't thinkin of two boys. My perversions are a tad more sick. It's all about me baby. And reading some boy/boy is arousing if the author is really really really good. But they have to be good. REally good. Did I mention that? Anyway, I hear you Pixi Pirate. The girly boys are way to girly and submissive, but as soon as I get an inkling its going to be that way, I click to the next page. NEXT! (its amazing how many times I must do that!)

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Yeah, when I'm rubbin up against the tree, I ain't thinkin of two boys.

See, now my sleepy little brain has a picture of you as a big bear

[Guest Big Samurai]

Does a bear (BEEP) in the woods? Haha.

I agree with ol' APP on this subject, but for different reasons. I have no aversion to homosexual fiction if it is well-written and in-character (and, preferably, canon), just like any other genre, but yaoi 'fic, as defined by APP, tends to be a unique beast in that the majority of it is written poorly and out-of-character (usually by underage fangirls; the posters who do it well tend to be older and more practiced). While this may correctly be said to be true of 'fic in general (Sturgeon's Law), the thing about yaoi in this day and age is that it multiplies at frightening speeds, often in fandoms that one would think would not be conducive to it. The result is that it has a tendency to choke other types of 'fic and scare off posters who may want to write something else. (Look at what happened to Gundam Wing, after all.)

Given the popularity of yaoi, there is no solution to the problem outside of containment and keeping pace with it by feeding other genres in each fandom. Like APP, though, I would certainly like to see homosexual 'fic that is a little closer to life, rather than all this seme / uke junk.

[Iggy_lovechild]

I too write quite a bit of yaoi, but I don't know that it can be considered yaoi. I don't generally read much of the actually Japanese mangas and the like (though I think "Fake" can be considered an exception to the rule, now if only those ink lines were a little bit cleaner...*sighs*). So I guess what I'm saying is that my stories aren't riddled with the usual stereotypical seme/uke, girly-boys bullshit. Most of my inspirations come from reading a lot of Poppy Z. Brite, and from my own pervy imagination.

[Squallfan]

I've written some yaoi and in no way have I made the characters acting girlie. I hate when gay men act like that. The fact that they are gay doesn't bother me in the least, but when they act like a chick......please. Be a fucking man!....Oop, sorry, forgot we were just talking about fan fics

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I've written some yaoi and in no way have I made the characters acting girlie. I hate when gay men act like that. The fact that they are gay doesn't bother me in the least, but when they act like a chick......please. Be a fucking man!....Oop, sorry, forgot we were just talking about fan fics

Don't worry... that annoys me as well. There's more to a person then who they fuck, ya know? It's one thing if that's just the way they are and always have been, but when people start acting how they think they should act, it grates on me. Be real, jeeze.

[Guest DarkAvenger]

I'd like to think at least my original story and characters aren't just "chicks with dicks"... I mean, I really really REALLY hope they aren't. o_0 That'd be very disturbing...

I mean, sure, one of them is, without a doubt, a "pretty boy", but he's actually half modeled after a friend of mine, who is a guy, and is completely and utterly straight. I just happen to think he looks rather like a real life bishounen! lol

As for fanfics I've written with M/M in them... well...

In one, it was a complete fluke (coincidentally my first fanfic ever, lol).

In another, I don't think that either was "girly", though definitely abused.

In yet another, well... all I can say is both characters were IN character, there's not much you can do when it's a Gravitation fanfic, unless you want to re-develop the characters yourself, lol.

And, last but not least, lemme think... hmm.... I don't think that either character was overly girly... but, I could just be biased.

Anyway, on to the fanfics in which there are definitely girly guys (chicks-with-dicks syndrome)... yeah, there's an amazing amount of them out there. (I just pray I'm not writing myself into exactly that.) Some aren't half bad if you'll give them the chance, but a good lot of them are just plain boring, or worse, disturbing.

Speaking of disturbing... (and completely off topic) I hate it when someone says that a guy is "wet" for his partner and they're referring to his ASS! I get to something like that and can't help but think, my god, what kind of idiot is writing this shit?! 0_0 (Uh... I mean un-educated innocent... yeah, I won't complete that thought *cough*)

I mean, seriously, aside from slight "malfunctions" in your digestive system (i.e. the runs) or when you're sweating really really bad, when else is your ass wet all by itself? It's not a friggin' vagina, guh! *dies a little inside just thinking about it* I swear some fanfic writers think it is though...

Okay, I'll go leave you all alone now, lol. I've rambled jussstttt a tad. *cough*

[Iggy_lovechild]

Speaking of disturbing... (and completely off topic) I hate it when someone says that a guy is "wet" for his partner and they're referring to his ASS! I get to something like that and can't help but think, my god, what kind of idiot is writing this shit?! 0_0 (Uh... I mean un-educated innocent... yeah, I won't complete that thought *cough*)

No shit! You've actually read that? Gods how depressing. The worst I find is unprepared dicks going into unprepared arseholes and everyone's just fine. Riiight, okay.

These idiots should put the pens down, do some research and until they completely understand the nature of mansex , stop writing Yaoi and just stick to shounen-ai.

What I hate more than even the bad sex scenes is the complete disregard of characterization and even the pairing itself. I hate getting the feeling that the author's main concern with a pairing is how hot they look together. So then I'm dealing with poor, one-dimensional, decidedly queer versions of the characters involved, stumbling through some cliched love story, until the tender conclusion, or the first lemon.

[Guest DarkAvenger]

Yes, unprepared sex is for rape and pain, not for a couple in love and their first time, lol.

Even worse, is when I write a story where I have the characters use condoms and people leave reviews saying "it was great and all, but why on earth would they need to use a condom?" *snarls at them* I just want to yell at them and say have you ever looked at what comes out of your ass?! Would you shove anything of yours in there without either cleaning the shit out of it (literally, haha) or putting a lovely sheath over whatever it is first? *dies even more*

Condom + gay =

gay + no condom =

Guh, I just twitched, for real, no kidding... lol.

Saves your signature pic *cough*

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Actually, as long as the couple is "experianced," beyond lube, prep isn't really necessary. All they need is some lube on the entrance and on the penis, then it's fine as long as the "Bottom" has had his booty plundered pretty often.

[Guest Helluin]

Don't worry... that annoys me as well. There's more to a person then who they fuck, ya know? It's one thing if that's just the way they are and always have been, but when people start acting how they think they should act, it grates on me. Be real, jeeze.

From the gay men I know, some -- some -- enjoy being exaggeratedly "girly" or silly or playing with things that "manly men" don't do because it's a sort of: HAH! I SHALL WAGGLE MY PRIVATE PARTS AT YOUR SILLY SQUARE-BOX-FOR-ROUND-PEG IDEAS ABOUT HOW A MAN SHOULD ACT! They're so fed up with stereotypes, being pigeonholed, or whatever that they deliberately thumb their noses at conventional gender roles.

Much like my old girlfriend showing off her muscles (and long knee-length hair, and frilly dress) by lifting heavy furniture and declaring loudly in front of a shellshocked Ikea parking attendant, "I'm BUTCH, aren't I?" and then kissing me.

Or, a subtle but important difference: since they've already liberated themselves from gender roles anyway, many gays feel a certain exhiliration and freedom in playing around with things that boys don't normally get to do. Like dressing up in panty hose or a Sailor Moon outfit (I don't like panty hose, but what the hey). Or acting affectionate to each other in ways that "normals" find shocking -- calling each other "girlfriend", allowing themselves to cry, being sweet/sappy, etc. That's not simply reacting to stereotypes by doing the opposite; it's moving beyond their constraints.

Depends on the guy. But anyway, my point is, you are going to get some "girly gays", just as you're going to meet some tomboy women. The difference is that the latter is slightly more accepted as a woman's role, whereas unfortunately, men usually receive a lot of flak for being "sissies".

And on the third hand, everyone is absolutely right that there's a lot of godawful yaoi fanfic written by straight young women who have no idea what men -- gay or otherwise -- are like, so they go projecting themselves onto their characters instead.

[Emi]

*hums*

Alright. I am a huge fangirl for boy-love. And seriously, I have been pampered enough on LiveJournal to see little of these fanfics that are like that.

When it comes to the original anime/manga, I agree with APP. I also get annoyed when it comes to shota where the little boys are practically little girls with dicks. :xx

The whole idea is just... I don't know. :\\ Really, not all men are willing to stick their virgin ass in the air and accept a romantic impale without preparation and lubrication then whimper about how much it hurts. Or perhaps they get the typical three-finger-insert thing. The next scene/page will be them moaning and screaming and it makes my stomach churn unhappily. Seme/uke sterotypes just makes me want to cry. Why not just write het instead, really? :|

Realistic sex ftw.

However. Doujinshi are completely diffrent things for myself. :")

[Guest DarkAvenger]

Actually, as long as the couple is "experianced," beyond lube, prep isn't really necessary. All they need is some lube on the entrance and on the penis, then it's fine as long as the "Bottom" has had his booty plundered pretty often.

At least you see the use for lube!!!! About four million fanfic writers don't... *dies*

And yeah, I have a few pretty open gay friends and all of them say if you're a bottom and you do it often, all you need a little bit of lube or a handful of spit to not be in agony.

[Rezalda]

My biggest beef with yaoi is how the yaoi fans seem to be the same people who are fans of inserting Japanese into their fics.

Now, that in itself isn't too much of a problem as long as

1. They have a DECENT grasp of what kind of characters use what kind of Japanese (for instance, a big manly tough guy isn't going to say "Hai" or "Gomen nasai")

2. The characters are actually Japanese (this means few, if any, characters from Gundam Wing). This can be ignored if the story is actually WRITTEN in Japanese.

3. They don't just randomly insert Japanese words into English sentences ("Oh, Heero, you're so kawaii")

Also, it's a little more believable if they don't use words and phrases that EVERY fan of anime knows ("baka," "arigatou," "sushi").

That goes for any language, really. I know I'm focusing mainly on anime here, but unfortunately I don't know enough about other fandoms to read, let alone write, their corresponding fanfiction. I'm also quite passionate about foreign languages, but even I don't feel competent enough to go around inserting Japanese phrases into my work.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

My biggest beef with yaoi is how the yaoi fans seem to be the same people who are fans of inserting Japanese into their fics.

Now, that in itself isn't too much of a problem as long as

1. They have a DECENT grasp of what kind of characters use what kind of Japanese (for instance, a big manly tough guy isn't going to say "Hai" or "Gomen nasai")

2. The characters are actually Japanese (this means few, if any, characters from Gundam Wing). This can be ignored if the story is actually WRITTEN in Japanese.

3. They don't just randomly insert Japanese words into English sentences ("Oh, Heero, you're so kawaii")

Also, it's a little more believable if they don't use words and phrases that EVERY fan of anime knows ("baka," "arigatou," "sushi").

That goes for any language, really. I know I'm focusing mainly on anime here, but unfortunately I don't know enough about other fandoms to read, let alone write, their corresponding fanfiction. I'm also quite passionate about foreign languages, but even I don't feel competent enough to go around inserting Japanese phrases into my work.

In Weiss Kruz, everyone loves to write Shuldig speaking random German. While "Nein" is okay, "Der Kaizer" is a bit... far... Unless he's making fun of something.

[ZombieDuke]

*thows self into the fold*

Well, I'll be the first to admit I do make some of my characters just a tiny bit girly, but I like to think their being more submissive rather then being, um, really quite girly.

As for the lube, how can people get it on WITHOUT some form of lube? The thought makes my head spin

[Emi]

Celia-- I agree.

Seriously, whenever I see random Japanese words inserted, I turn from the fiction right away. It makes my head hurt just switching back and forth. And... it's just. :||| urk. no words can express how frustrated I get because of that.

Unless they are what the character would say, or in parodies. But those are also the exceptions, hmm? :x

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

There's also the occasion when it's a term that doesn't really translate to English well, or when the character want's to get a certain effect. Take, for instance, Dattebayo. When it comes to naruto fic, it's either that or "Belive it!" Which would you prefer? There's also "Ne?" and "Aa." They're just best in Japanese and get the desired affect. While "Huh?" and "ah" are good substitutes, the Japanese words get the proper mental image for me.

[Guest DarkAvenger]

Or if the character just happens to be an OC who knows pretty good English, but their first language is Japanese. Thus, a lapse occurs every now and then. XD

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Or if the character just happens to be an OC who knows pretty good English, but their first language is Japanese. Thus, a lapse occurs every now and then. XD

Or, if you have Japanese canon characters in the US for whatever reason. Then, yeah.

[Iggy_lovechild]

Even worse, is when I write a story where I have the characters use condoms and people leave reviews saying "it was great and all, but why on earth would they need to use a condom?" *snarls at them* I just want to yell at them and say have you ever looked at what comes out of your ass?! Would you shove anything of yours in there without either cleaning the shit out of it (literally, haha) or putting a lovely sheath over whatever it is first? *dies even more*

Condom + gay =

gay + no condom =

Oh now I feel bad. I usually forget the whole condom thing, not because I don't know any better, but because...Eh, I guess I just tend to gloss over some details for the sake of fantasy. I do tend to make broad references to cleanliness. Showers between encounters or maybe a quick wash up of certain parts. No going ass to mouth in my stories. *cringes*

[dazzledfirestar]

Alright, let me admit one thing first, my knowledge of anime is, at best, limited. But as I'm sure everyone here is aware, the inherent problems with yaoi have steadily seeped into nearly every other fandom, and "chicks with dicks" are popping up everywhere!

Now personally, I'm a fan of well written M/M stories, even though I've never written one myself. Unfortunately, in my fandom (X-Men) they are becoming scarce.

I think that the idea of "return the characters in the same condition they were in when you borrowed them" would be a grand thing for some writers to keep in mind. Write your M/M relationships, use which ever characters you wish, but keep them IN CHARACTER! Don't take someone who is generally pretty macho and turn him into a whiny replacement girl!

*sigh* Just had to get that off my chest. Thanks!

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Alright, let me admit one thing first, my knowledge of anime is, at best, limited. But as I'm sure everyone here is aware, the inherent problems with yaoi have steadily seeped into nearly every other fandom, and "chicks with dicks" are popping up everywhere!

Now personally, I'm a fan of well written M/M stories, even though I've never written one myself. Unfortunately, in my fandom (X-Men) they are becoming scarce.

I think that the idea of "return the characters in the same condition they were in when you borrowed them" would be a grand thing for some writers to keep in mind. Write your M/M relationships, use which ever characters you wish, but keep them IN CHARACTER! Don't take someone who is generally pretty macho and turn him into a whiny replacement girl!

*sigh* Just had to get that off my chest. Thanks!

Which is why I can't read X-Men slash at ALL. They make 'em WAY too girly.

I've been leaning to more obscure fandoms lately like One Piece and Static Shock. Far fewer fans means far better fics. However, it also means far less fics

[Guest DarkAvenger]

  Oh now I feel bad.  I usually forget the whole condom thing, not because I don't know any better, but because...Eh, I guess I just tend to gloss over some details for the sake of fantasy.  I do tend to make broad references to cleanliness.  Showers between encounters or maybe a quick wash up of certain parts.  No going ass to mouth in my stories.  *cringes*

I'm just a bit sqeemish I guess is all. I just can't stand the thought of putting something into a hole that shit comes out of when it's not clean!

Apparently, I'm mostly alone on that one though, considering the considerable lack of condoms in any of the fandoms I've ever read in.

But, I did manage to make my first rimming scene in my last full length fic that I completed. The only way I managed it was to not be overly descriptive, have both characters in the shower, and have the one who was going to do the rimming first clean the other one very well.

In any case, I can still read stories where they don't use condoms so long as I force myself to not think about it or I mentally insert one myself, lol. And, honestly, it's not so bad as long as they're both clean at the very least...

I just don't like it when say... Sesshoumaru goes and finds InuYasha after 4 days of traveling and InuYasha's referenced to be "stinky" and "dirty" and then suddenly Sesshoumaru sticks his dick up InuYasha's ass. Then I'm just like... you're both filthy and most likely have used the restroom in the past 4 days... for the love of god, please at least wash first!!!

Oh, and I really didn't mean to offend anyone. It's just a personal squick of mine and I kind of voiced it without thinking about it hurting someone's feelings or making them feel bad in any way. I should have thought it out first, but, as per the usual, I didn't.