Military Declares Solders Are Not Us Citizens

[Guest echtrae]

Apparently in the Watada court martial case, the military judge has ruled that the first amendment doesn't apply to military personel. The constitution does not support this claim.

US Army officer barred from disputing legality of Iraq war at court-martial

[AmyMcClair]

To anyone with an affiliation with the military, this is completely expected. In fact, I am surprised that they didn't try to get him with being AWOL for refusing to go.

He refuses to be classified as a conscientious objector because he does not object to war in general, just to the "illegal" war in Iraq. He had offered to instead serve in Afghanistan, however the Army refused.

He knows (or should know) that having submitted to the US Army, he is subject to deployments wherever they need him, not necessarily wherever he wants to go. If soldiers could choose where they wanted to go like he was trying to, there would be a hell of a lot less soldiers in harms way that wanted to be able to come home to their families.

As for the

His vocal protests and participation in rallies by Veterans for Peace [advocacy website] and Courage to Resist [advocacy website] led to the charges of conduct unbecoming an officer and the original charge of contempt toward officials.

He was taught by the military, just like every soldier is taught that you cannot make political statements of any kind while representing the military, because it can be construed as a statement by the military. As a soldier he is alllowed to deal with politics, but he cannot associate himself with the military while he does it.

Unfortunately this means that as a military member, he loses access to certain rights and privileges that are available to the rest of the American population, but he also gains several that compensate for those losses. All such losses are pretty much understood when the person takes the oath to become a service member.

[Keith Inc.]

Apparently in the Watada court martial case, the military judge has ruled that the first amendment doesn't apply to military personel. The constitution does not support this claim.

But his military contract does. Military personnel do not have the full rights of the Constitution they're sworn to defend. It's a long standing tradition.

On the other hand, we got snazzy bellbottom trousers and keeno haircuts.

[Guest Gaara]

Yeah once you sign the contract there is no getting out. The saying 'signing your life away' is true. But it does have its perks.

[Keith Inc.]

But it does have its perks.

Are you in, or is someone you know?

[Guest Gaara]

I'm in the military.

[Guest Gaara]

Not yet, we leave in September. Yay.

[Keith Inc.]

I was in the Navy for 20. Which branch are you in?

[Guest Gaara]

I'm in the Army.

[Guest Agaib]

What rank did you get to Keith? Were you ever one of those guys with all of that shiny stuff on your coat?

You should post a picture of your shinies.

[Guest Gaara]

Anyone in the military has 'shinies' no matter what their rank.

[Guest Yhitzak]

This article has nothing to do with the status of a soldier's citizenship; this article is entirely concerning the conduct of an officer of the American Armed Forces. To state that soldiers "do not enjoy the same constitutional rights as civilians" is NOT stating that they are not citizens of the United States. As pointed out by several others on this thread, one signs a contract before entering into any armed force, and if they don't know exactly what that means, it is no one's fault but their own for what they do with it. While I think it's a damn shame that this guy can't disagree with his government without coming under fire for it, he really *is* at fault and here is why: he signed a contract with the United States government that prevents him from making political statements as an officer of the armed forces (a protective measure by and for the government that isn't exactly misplaced), but mostly because he enlisted in the armed forces during a known time of crisis (according to the article, it was 2003). If he had these reservations about participating in the Iraqi war, he should never have signed up in the first place. This article isn't about injustice by the government (for a change), it is about one soldier's stupidity.

[Keith Inc.]

What rank did you get to Keith? Were you ever one of those guys with all of that shiny stuff on your coat?

I retired as an E6, First Class Petty Officer, Missile Technician.

When i left, i had, let's see...

1st Class Crow, 5 hash marks (each for 4 years service), Crow and hash were in Gold, denoting keeping my nose clean for 12 years straight.

On the pocket, i had Dolphins, a Navy Achievement Medal, A Meritorius Unit Commendation, A Battle Efficiency award, A Good Conduct Medal (i forget how many stars...somewhere in there they stopped awarding them every four years, switched to every 3 years...), A National Defense Medal (also referred to as a CNN ribbon), a Sea Service Ribbon with 4 stars, and a Deterrent Patrol Pin with two stars for a total of 14 patrols.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

This article has nothing to do with the status of a soldier's citizenship; this article is entirely concerning the conduct of an officer of the American Armed Forces. To state that soldiers "do not enjoy the same constitutional rights as civilians" is NOT stating that they are not citizens of the United States. As pointed out by several others on this thread, one signs a contract before entering into any armed force, and if they don't know exactly what that means, it is no one's fault but their own for what they do with it. While I think it's a damn shame that this guy can't disagree with his government without coming under fire for it, he really *is* at fault and here is why: he signed a contract with the United States government that prevents him from making political statements as an officer of the armed forces (a protective measure by and for the government that isn't exactly misplaced), but mostly because he enlisted in the armed forces during a known time of crisis (according to the article, it was 2003). If he had these reservations about participating in the Iraqi war, he should never have signed up in the first place. This article isn't about injustice by the government (for a change), it is about one soldier's stupidity.

Indeed. People seriously need to get into the habit of reading things before they sign them. For all this guy knows, he could have signed something saying he's going to be a live organ donor.

And, seriously, 2003? Come on!

I'm all for sticking it up to the man, but seriously, the man is right in this case.

I think the only way I could side with this soldier is if he had been drafted. And would you look at that, we don't draft anymore.

[Squallfan]

Indeed. People seriously need to get into the habit of reading things before they sign them. For all this guy knows, he could have signed something saying he's going to be a live organ donor.

And, seriously, 2003? Come on!

I'm all for sticking it up to the man, but seriously, the man is right in this case.

I think the only way I could side with this soldier is if he had been drafted. And would you look at that, we don't draft anymore.

I agree. I can't understand how anyone can join the military and not expect to see some fighting action. You have to be dedicated to be a soldier. I've never been in the military, and this is only my opinion on the matter.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

I agree. I can't understand how anymore can join the military and not expect to see some fighting action. You have to be dedicated to be a soldier. I've never been in the military, and this is only my opinion on the matter.

Actually, both of my parents were in the military, my father in the Air Force and my mother was in the Air National Guard. Neither of them are dedicated patriots or anything, but it seemed like a good idea at the time, and there were no major conflicts. No dedication, just a lack of anything better to do.

My grandfather, however, fought in Vietnam. THAT is dedication.

[Keith Inc.]

I can't understand how anyone can join the military and not expect to see some fighting action.

People are idiots.

I knew at least two people in the Navy who were surprised when their detailer demanded they go to sea.

And a man who graduated Sub School and drew Sub Pay for 12 years, then was absolutely shocked when he was forced to go to report to a submarine for the first time ever.

Then, a man that wanted a small command, anything but an aircraft carrier, because he thought they were too big to be safe. So he became an Aviation Boatswains Mate, and was surprised to be sent to a carrier.

Plus, an officer that turned his back on the division, expecting that no one would spit in his drink. Oh, well that's not exactly on point...

Oh, and someone who joined the Marines for the technical training, then was surprised at being sent to the rifle range.

[Guest Gaara]

Okay when I joind the Army I knew that I would be deploying. This was a given. In this day and age chances are you are going to deploy or go overseas at least once in your career. This officer that made the statement should have known better. In the Army, hell the military, you give up certain rights, anyone who has ever joined knows this. The point is there are things you do and things you don't do. This was the wrong thing to do. Really being in the military is the easiest job in the world. Where else are you told where to be, what uniform to be in, and what you'll be doing? So really there is no excuse.