This Is A Shame

[Guest sunny]

hi i have been reading some of the original stories and why is it that most of them are dealing with minors. some of the stuff, involing minors, in there is just sick! This is just as bad pictures involing minors. I feel all this information should be taken off. Moreover i think people who actually read this should consider the fact that if the authorities were to find this out, you all could be in serious trouble. I used to visit this website now and then but have stopped since now this site just makes me sick!

[Guest Mike256bit]

Well, since fictional accounts of children don't actually endanger the welfare of children, it's hardly illegal. Your complaint will fall on deaf ears. And, besides, it's not like there are tons of warnings. Consider yourself to blame for reading something you didn't want to. Good job.

[Guest ChibiShiva]

Well first, this site is supposed to be about FICTION. Meaning... it's fictional, that nothing happened there. It's like movies on sexual abuse (and there are) and so on - they're work of fiction (except when noted).

Second, dealing with "minority" can be different from country to country. Legal consent age is 16 in Canada, majority at 18. All I know in the USA is that majority it 21, and again I oculd be wrong. I don't even think it's specified somewhere that you can't have minor characters... and now that I think about it after seeing the post above mine, there IS a warning for stories involving minors.

I don't like something, I don't read it so I don't have to moan around saying "I don't like this".

Yes it's harsh and direct, but that's how I feel about this.

[Guest Mike256bit]

That's what had me so mad about FFNs eventual downfall. There was always a warning about a fiction's rating, yet, people were complaining like they were being blind-sided.

"ZOMG I CLICKED THAT I WAS OVER 17 WHY ARE PEOPLE HAVING SEX IN THIS STORY?!!!?!!1111!!?"

[Guest DarkVampWriter]

Obviously that's why people put warnings into the summaries of the stories. If you don't like it don't read it! It's a very simple concept!

[Guest Mike256bit]

I really have to question someone that joins a forum just to rant about it. That's just a waste of everyone's time.

[Guest Evil_Labs]

This is a step up from the single forum post one person joined to make asking people to go to a new adult story site instead. heh.

At any rate, most writers have enough sense, in addition to use pen names and identifications on their writing as well, to distinguish it from their normal fiction and fan fiction. Furthermore, there are actual published novels and stories with equally, if not darker, content sometimes.

[Guest Mike256bit]

Hey, Stephen King loves traumatizing little boys in his novels.

[Guest Evil_Labs]

Stephen King is among the less shocking in terms of the field I'm thinking of. lol

But either way, such things -do- happen in the world, and one of the parts of literature has always been the ability to write about areas most people aren't necessarily up to going.

[Guest Mike256bit]

I figured, but it was the first thing I thought of

I just think that the parallel made to images of minors is outlandish. Of course, poster never specified photographs versus illustrations, but I can't imagine the leap it takes to say that child pornography (if that is in fact was Sunny was saying) = fictional accounts that feature children.

[Guest Evil_Labs]

Even graphical minor stuff, if it's not photos and is drawn artwork instead, is kind of a different shaky ground. It's one of those kind of shady areas in hentai most people don't think about too much, though I can honestly say loli and its related fields are something I avoid like the plague. But either way, like was said, warnings in summaries, and that it's not anything that affects anyone real mean that all that's required is a person who is capable of distinguishing fiction from reality. I guess that's getting kind of rare these days.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

To clerify a question or two I saw, there is NO law against WRITING sexually explicit stories including minors in the United States. All laws concerning endangerment of minors have to do with the actual ACT , not writing about it. It doesn't even need to be fictional. It can be biographical. Truly, unless it's an actual minor participating in a actual sexual or abusive act, there is no law against it. Writing, television and movies are all protected by the Constitution.

[Guest Mike256bit]

Funny, I was watching Oprah today, because I'm a 50-year-old grandmother, and the topic was captured child molestors. And all I could think about was this thread. And even though I've read fictional accounts that were twice as worse as what these bastards were doing, there was always that undeniable knowledge that it wasn't actually happening.

But after seeing that segment, all I wanted to do was put on a crime-fighting suit (like, a blazer with pinstripse pants) and start brass-knuckling pedophiles. It's all about that reality.

And even in fictional accounts, say of molestation, it really helps to define the perpetrator. It establishes character, even if it is meant for titilation. A critical rule is to not tie the author to their characters -- especially in the case of minor stories, the actors are the the primary people to remember.

YES, TYRA BANKS IS ON AND SHE'S TALKING ABOUT BISEXUALS. I might have to start a topic about her.

[StoryJunkie]

I know how you feel, since I saw this guy on FP posting and endorsing the "Child Rights Group" It was absolutely sickening and made me cold all over. A child does not think in the same way an adult does. I had him deleted. I wish I could say in actuality, but it was only in virtuality.

I apologize from the bottom of my heart for the assault on your sensibilities.

Crimes of this nature should not be considered, nor acted upon.

A child should NOT be interfered with in any way.

I am glad that you shared your feelings here.

Not all stories here are about child abuse

Not all child abuse stories are about it being a good thing.

Some people have suffered these abuses and find a way of getting them down and out is by writing them out and letting people know what's out there. Kind of like hungering for justice.

The world can be an ugly and dangerous place.

As everyone else has already mentioned the warnings that ARE REQUIRED before an author publishes, I will only say that many of the people here are sensible intelligent people, and would probably react the same way as you if anything like that really happened.

[Guest Mike256bit]

Storyjunkie, I adore you for being so wise and level-headed

[StoryJunkie]

Hey, can I quote you next time I'm arguing with my hubby?

[Guest Mike256bit]

Every time

[NightScribe]

Moreover i think people who actually read this should consider the fact that if the authorities were to find this out, you all could be in serious trouble.

The year....1955. The author.....Vladimir Nabokov. The novel...."Lolita." Plot... a middle aged man who molests a girl starting when she's ten years old. I'm talking about a published author who got paid for his work.

This book is considered a classic of literature. You can buy it at any bookstore. My copy classifies the novel as "fiction/literature." It is a story that makes you think, is beautifully written and oh, yeah, one more thing, it never once graphically describes what he does to her, but you get the idea. The book's been "banned" I don't know how many times, but it's still out there and I heard about it from my mom.

The book was made into two films; one in the sixties (which kind of sucked) and one in the nineties with Jeremy Irons (who also did the unabridged audio book). The latter version could not find a distributor, so Showtime ran it. It's also available on DVD.

Wait...someone's knocking on my door...crap! It's the Fiction/Thought Police, come to take my books, fics, DVDs and cable box!

Read the content warnings, and if what you're reading eventually turns you off, stop. I've done it and that includes fics with consenting adults. If it doesn't float your boat, bail. There's plenty of sites with PG-13 and under stories only if that's what you prefer.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

Wait...someone's knocking on my door...crap! It's the Fiction/Thought Police, come to take my books, fics, DVDs and cable box!

-squee-

Is it just me, or have there been more Orwell refrences lately? Or... maybe it's because I'm halfway through 1984 and spazzing.

[Crazed Flow]

The only minor character I used was from a video game, so that pretty much tells you that it is fiction. I keep away from minor characters, except when it comes to the Zelda fandom.

When I write something other than video game/Zelda fanfics, the characters have to be around my age or older.

[Guest Big Samurai]

Thank you for bringing up Lolita, Ink. 'Tis a literary classic and one of the best character studies I have had a chance to read. Sure, ol' Humbert is a world-class perv, but, once you get inside his head and listen to his story, you can find that even he has redeeming qualities. Everybody ought to read that book at least once.

As for the issue of minors in sex-related 'fic, well, 'fic does stand for fiction, so the writer gets carte blanche as to what goes into it, as other posters have noted. Ideally, under freedom of speech, people can write what they want to write, and, hey, if they want to write about minors getting into naughty things, that is their prerogative. (I, myself, do not get into that practice, but that is my personal preference.)

[NightScribe]

Big Sam-

No problem, Lolita's got to be one of my favorite novels of all time. I dig trying to put people on to the classics.

Is it just me, or have there been more Orwell refrences lately? Or... maybe it's because I'm halfway through 1984 and spazzing.

Pixagi-

You're not spazzing. Let's shed a little light on what's going on in this world, shall we?

The Patriot Act (Feds want library records & bookstore credit card purchases. "What, exactly, is Jane/John Smith reading?" None of your goddamn business!)

The domestic spying scandal. (Turn over those phone and internet records)

Warrantless searches (WTF?)

Access to bank records (I say again, WTF?)

Automatic toll devices that know exactly where you were and when and in what car. You've got a GPS chip in your cell phone. And don't forget "Nipplegate" during the Super Bowl. Tivo had a record of how many people re-played that (oh, we just keep those records for uhmm...hey did you see that nipple shield?)

We have surveillance cameras on city streets, intersections and just about every freaking place you can possibly imagine (grocery stores inside & out, laundromats, you name it). You can't pull your underwear out of your ass crack, scratch your nuts or adjust your boobs without somebody seeing it.

When you finish 1984 and want to spazz out a little more, try Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here." Published in 1935 about how facists could come to run the government of the U.S.

[Guest Melody Fate]

Hmm... your post indicates you're never coming back here, but I strongly doubt it. I know your type, you're going to want to see the controversy you caused.

Since I am one of those writers you speak of, I feel I have the right to address this personally. So, let's begin, shall we?

i have been reading some of the original stories and why is it that most of them are dealing with minors.

I can only answer confidently for myself and only hazzard guesses for others. For me? My main character is a minor for several reasons... 1: A lot of her life is based on true life experiences. As for who's life and how much, I'm not going to say, that's no one's business. But the age of my character (15) was deliberately chosen.

My character is going through a lot. She's lead both an very "liberal" and yet very "sheltered" life. She makes unwise choices that lead to difficulties. Had I made her 18, the story would not have been the same. Her being fifteen adds and impact. She's forced to grow up fast, in so many ways, yet she's still a kid. I want readers to wonder about her. I want readers to enjoy her exploits, sexual or otherwise, but I also want them to feel a bit uncomfortable for her. I want them to sometimes say to themselves, yes, she's enjoying sex, but I wish she hadn't rushed things so fast. She deserves time to be a teenager.

Had I made her 18, her mistakes would seem less forgiveable, her exploits less emotional. What comes across as normal confusion and misunderstanding at fifteen, might come across as stupid and ditzy at eighteen. Fifteen leaves her more vulnerable.

As for "Oh my god, a fifteen year old shouldn't have sex!" Well, that's something the law has decided. I know several folks who had sex by the time they were fifteen and most of them grew up just fine. Hell, I had a neighbor who was having her second baby at the age of fifteen, so yes, sex happens. Teenagers are very sexual creatures, we all know that. The only thing that makes teenage sex "icky" is the law.

Do I think minors deserve to be protected? Yes. However, you can't blame someone for getting sexually excited looking at a developed teenager. That's nature taking it's course. It's what you do about it that makes it legal or illegal.

I'm not a fan of adult/teenager sex. I state that quite clearly in my disclaimer. But it's not because I believe no one under the age of 18 is capable of handling a sexual relationship with someone ages 18 and older, it's because the law has decided that this is a bad idea and society has placed so much taboo on it, that the relationships are rarely good for anyone's mental health.

My Grandmother married my Grandfather at the age of 16. He was 22. They had a long, happy, loving marrage with two daughters. No one suggested this was "wrong" or "sick." No one set out to arrest my Grandfather for statutory rape, it was almost a common thing back then,so my Grandmother was fine. This day in age, we've decided that until someone is eighteen, having sex with adults is wrong. Therefore, there is some huge, emotional baggage society will put on the relationship, which isn't fair to the teenager. Therefore, it's very hard for a teenager and an adult to have a true, loving relationship. If you love someone, you want what's best for them, even if that means you suffer. If my Grandparents met now, if my Grandfather truly loved my Grandmother, he would wait until she was eighteen, because he wouldn't want to push her into something illegal.

What's the difference? How come my Grandfather, back before the turn of the 20th century, was a normal man with normal desires, but if he'd been born from about 1940 up, he would have been a "sick and disgusting pervert?"

Why do other people write stories involving teens? They have their reasons. My guess is that a lot of them are because teenagers are very sexual creatures. A teenager who's curious and innocent about sex is believable. An eighteen on up person who's completely nieve is almost laughable. Virgin? Yes, I can believe that. But mostly ignornat about it? Unless they've been raised in a monastary, away from all outside influences, I can't believe it.

some of the stuff, involing minors, in there is just sick!

Yes, some of it is. Everyone has a dark side, it's how we deal with it that separates us. Some of us use writing to explore that which is forbidden. People above me have pointed out some excellent examples, so I won't elaborate.

This is just as bad pictures involing minors.

Now you've pissed me off, because I'm assuming you mean photographs. Fictional stories about fictional people is not the same as actual pictures of actual minors. If you think so, then please, let me come over and beat some sense into your fucking head, okay?

Photographs of minors involved in sexual exploits means that there is a victim involved. Somewhere, some minor is actually being exploited. The thought of that makes me physically ill on several levels.

Stories about fake children having fake sex with fake people? Different. No one gets hurt. And again, we have an outlet for our fantasies, even the darker ones.

If you make it so that fictional stories about fictional people are just as evil as the real thing, then you're A: Becoming the "thought" police, deciding that it's evil for anyone to even imagine that which is morally offensive to you and/or B: Opening the door to more cases of "the real thing."

If it's "The same thing" then wouldn't that encourage more people to actually act on rather than write about? "Well, if I write about a fictional girl having fictional sex, I could get the same punishment as if I took pictures of my daughter's friends in sexual poses. Hell, I might as well get out the camera."

To make fictional sex the same as real sex, makes about as much sense as saying people who play video games that involve killing others are just as "wrong" as real muderers. Again, FICTION. Not real. No one gets hurt. Photographs? REAL. real people, real pain, real hurt.

I feel all this information should be taken off.

Bully for you! Anything else while we're at it?

Hey, you know what? I feel M/M is wrong. AFF, please remove all M/M from this site. You know what? I hate anal too. And guess what? Anal is still illegal in many states. To me, fake people plundering fake asses is just as evil as real people plundering real asses. Please remove all stories involving anal sex.

And rape stories? Oh god, those are wrong. C'mon AFF, get rid of those too.

First off, it isn't INFORMATION, it's stories. No one is writing manuals on how to capture and fuck a child. Second of all, if YOU have the right to dictate what is and isn't allowed, so does anyone else.

Your solution? Don't read stories that bother you, or start your own site where you can say, "It's my site and I don't allow this."

Moreover i think people who actually read this should consider the fact that if the authorities were to find this out, you all could be in serious trouble.

Again, FICTIONAL people having FICTIONAL sex. Not real! Fake! Make believe!

Yes, people are trying to get laws changed so even fictional sex with fictional minors would be "illegal" and a lot of adult sites are cattering to this, and forbidding stories involving minors. But as of yet, FICTION is not considered REAL.

(Ironically, most of these sites that forbid fictionals stories involving fictional minors have no trouble allowing stories of rape, torture, necrophilia, so on and so forth. This might make me evil, but if I had two daughters, one eighteen one fifteen, I'd rather the fifteen year old had consential sex with an adult than for my eighteen year old to be raped, tortured, and to have someone fuck her corpse. )

You're picking and choosing here. All you seem to be upset about is the idea of fictional minors having sex. Why are you objecting only to that, but not objecting to the rape and torture fictions? After all, if your logic holds, a story about rape and torture is just as bad as pictures of real people being raped and tortured. So, logically, you're saying that it's okay for people to rape and torture and to photograph this for the pleasure of others. 'Cause you know, fictional characters and real life people are the same thing.

I used to visit this website now and then but have stopped since now this site just makes me sick!

But you had to make sure we all knew about it, so you could leave with a clear concious. "I told those sickos where to go! Gimmie my wings and halo!"

Your protests sound like the cries of someone who just got turned on reading a story that they felt was morally wrong and are now "paying for your crime" by telling everyone else how wicked it is. Or, even worse, blaming the writers for what you see as your "weakness."

"If that evil person hadn't written that story that I just wanked to, I wouldn't have wanked to reading about minors having sex, and I'd still be PURE! Damn them!"

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

...dude. Melody, remind me to NEVER seriously offend you. EVER! And if I have, remember I love you and respect you and was likely not in my right mind.

Other then that... Never before has a threat of bodily harm made over the internet felt so... potent.

[Guest Evil_Labs]

Maybe, but it was richly deserved and very accurate. I'm glad it was so articulately conveyed.