Never Hurt To Ask?

[Guest Melody Fate]

I can't help but notice that the topic of reviews comes up rather frequently around here. This isn't surprising, we're not getting paid for all our hard work so quite often we end up feeling that reviews are our "payment."

However, the type of reviews people want seem to vary. I've met writers who only want happy, fluffy, "Love your story!" reviews, all the way up to "I hate it when people tell me they like my story. If they aren't willing to tell me what's wrong, then why did they waste their time and mine?" I've also noticed that we as writers spend a lot of time griping as to why we don't get the type of reviews we want from "I have a tough skin, I'd die for a good, critical review, why don't I get them?" down to, "I swear, some of these people look for stupid stuff to complain about!"

What no one seems to do is sympathise with the reader. He walks into the story blindly. He doesn't know the writers state of mind. Is she someone who only wants to hear praise? Or is she someone who wants to know what she's doing wrong? In the case of the praise only folks, why should the reader waste his time trying to point out this persons weak points if she's not going to bother to listen. If it's someone who really wants to hear the bad as well as the good, how does the reader know this?

Did it ever occur to us to politely ask our readers for certain kinds of reviews and maybe prompt them along a bit? I see a lot of "Read and Review please!" but that doesn't tell the reader anything.

There is generally a rule of thumb that the better the story the more likely it is that the person can take constructive critism. However, as a reader, I've seen that theory backfire and when I've tried to give a helpful critique that points out the good and the bad, been told I'm being "soooo mean!" because "It's just a hobby!"

Since writers can vary in personality as much as readers, and the reader doesn't have a crystal ball to let them know who we are as writers, maybe we ought to give them something to go on.

Many writers have their own opinions on what their weak points are. Don't be afraid to admit it! Why not put at the end of your story something along the lines of, "Thank you for reading this and I'm hoping you'll take a moment or two to let me know what you think of the story. I worry sometimes that I do a terrible job on action scenes, do you agree? And, if you do, could you give me suggestions on how I could improve them?"

I know as a reader, if I read something like that, I'd understand that this is someone who not only can take the honest truth, but chances are will even welcome it. Not only do I know what they see as their weak points, but I also know they really do want to improve. If I see other problems in the story, I can point them out as well and know I'm not wasting my time. In the long run I benifit as a reader because the next story she writes will probably be better and that's what I want, to read a better quality of stories.

If you really are the type that hates those reviews that say, "OMG! Write more PLZ!" to the point where you'd rather they didn't bother, you can gently hint at it. "While begging me to write more is nice, it would be a lot more useful to me if you'd give me reasons why you're begging me to continue. Do you like my characterizations? My narative? And, if you feel I'm lacking in any areas, please feel free to tell me what you feel they are. I really have been working hard on this story and I want it to be the best it can be."

As a reader, it's sometimes easy to fall in a habbit of thinking I'm no one in the full picture of this story. To think the writer has it all together, my review doesn't really mean much. If you start to feel insignificant, you'll start to act insignificant.

For a writer to not only remind a reader that they not only are important, but that they can really help, might mean the difference between "I like this story, please write more" and a longer, better written review pointing out both the good and the bad.

What do you folks think?

[NightScribe]

I think you're right when it comes to reviews being our "payment". I really craved reviews when I first started out and barely got any, which made me ask myself, "should I continue?" Two scenarios usually happen when I post my fics; after the first chapter or two are up, I may get one or two people saying "sounds interesting, can't wait for more," or I'll get one or two after the story is completed with something like "really enjoyed your fic, thanks for sharing."

A friend of mine had pointed out that people may not be able to articulate exactly what they liked or didn't like about a fic and might not review for that reason. I admit, I'm pretty tough on myself, and will say "geez, this chapter is shit", but when it comes to leaving reviews for others, I try to comment on a lot of the things you mentioned; characterization, action, pacing, etc. I did that recently and the author replied, and they weren't bent out of shape over it at all. They explained why they were doing what they were doing; as a reader, if I lose interest, I lose interest, but I certainly won't lambast them for carrying on in the way they wish with the story they want to tell.

As writers, we can always try, as you suggested, to nudge people into giving constructive feedback, but it still may not have the desired results. And I think some authors don't want to come across as "begging" for reviews (and I've seen people rant about how much they hate beggars).

Personally, I've settled in and become accustomed to lack of reviews and go by hits. If I post a new chapter and see the hits remaining consistent, or increasing, I'm satisfied, (unless the rating goes down, then I know I'm in trouble). If someone leaves a review, great, if not...well, that's the way it is, but I realize that attitude won't work for everyone. As a reader, however, I'll continue to leave comments that are thoughtful and politely phrased and hope that it helps a fellow author.

[polywolly]

As a writer, I like to hear what someone likes and what they think is lacking. Although, I keep in mind that some readers are looking for an action-packed rollercoaster ride while others prefer a long, drawn out drama. Some people prefer simplified descriptions while others prefer a verbose depiction of every minute detail.

When a reader takes the time to review, they are letting the writer know that they've read the story and thought it was good enough, or bad enough, to merit comment. I'm usually satisfied with "Brilliant!". I don't mind a good, old, "That was great! Looking forward to more." My favorite reviews point out something in particular, something that struck them as odd, something they want to see more of, something they particularly liked. All in all, I'm not terribly picky.

The pros of asking for detailed reviews would certainly be the added input or concrit the writer receives. If the writer thinks they have a pacing issue or they’re not sure if the flashback scene works as well as they hoped then they should mention it in the a/n. Then the reader will pay more attention to the part, and while they’re reading, make mental notes about what worked, what didn’t, and ways to improve the problem or dispel the writer’s worry about that point.

The only drawback I see is that some reviewers who might leave the one line reviews might pass on leaving a review in that case. Some readers might think the writer seeks more comment than they are either prepared or feel qualified to provide. I’ve heard from several regular reader/reviewers that they simply enjoy the stories. They aren’t wrapped up in grammar/tense/formatting/pacing/continuation/etc. In that case, perhaps a note saying, “All reviews welcome…” or something to that effect that would prevent putting any distance between the writer and the “pleasure reader”. Those one line reviews of encouragement are equally, if not more important to me. The more of those I get, the more people I know are reading the story…and actually enjoying it.

[StoryJunkie]

hm, when I first discovered there was a virtual outlet for my writing, I immediately was struck with an idea, an idea that had been lurking inside me, apparently for some time. I HAD to write it out and post it! What a marvelous experiment, I thought to myself!

My main concern was, how long do I make each post? The greatest reward for me was how many HITS the story got. I'd visit several times a day and check out how many hits the story got. I posted on a site that showed how many hits per chapter and found to my dismay, that most people hit only the first chapter. Maybe 10 peeople read the story to the end.

Then I came here, and really, I was such a hit counter, the reviews seemed like icing on the cake. The more I read other story's reviews, however, the more I wanted some like that, so I began to really plan out elaborate cliff-hanger endings. My head was in a spin. I was like, on drugs or something.

When it came to reviewing, I found a different sort of high. I started trying to write reviews that would out-do anyone else's review. So my challenge to myself became: how to say in as few words how the story affected me, yet leave the author feeling as if what they had done was worth it, and at the same time not dissect the living hell out of it?

Honestly, I go back and look at some of the reviews I've left and just glory in the sheer poetry of them. They were a thing to admire.5th one down on the page is prize-winning

As for recieving reviews, I remained and still remain ambivilent. I love getting any sort of attention, although, in truth, I sometimes think my work lacks a certain passion, even, at times, cohesion. Except when Eric dies. It was a really good death scene. I re-wrote it a couple times just to hone the impact, and it was really worth it. It didn't matter then, if no one reviewed. Sometimes it's the silence at the end of the symphony that speaks louder than the applause. I knew I did good, and I was happy with it.

At other times, I am very needy, but I find I become that when I enter into a rapport with my reviewers, and they become regular reviewers. A fan following if you will. It's sad to lose that following if you've gotten used to it. Well, to a mild extent, yes, I had a following. When it was gone, I did go through some withdrawal.

OOps Think I've gone on long enough. Probably rambled a bit, but there, I've shared a bit of myself.

[Guest yamsham]

What no one seems to do is sympathise with the reader. He walks into the story blindly. He doesn't know the writers state of mind. Is she someone who only wants to hear praise? Or is she someone who wants to know what she's doing wrong? In the case of the praise only folks, why should the reader waste his time trying to point out this persons weak points if she's not going to bother to listen. If it's someone who really wants to hear the bad as well as the good, how does the reader know this?

I once suggested on another forum that perhaps writers should include a note in their stories about what kind of writers they are, serious or hobbyist, which would help determine what kind of reviews they got. I thought it was a pretty good idea, at least until this mod started bitchslapping me about it. See, I think the problem is there are a lot of people writing stories who truly believe that they are serious, who truly believe that someday they will be published, when in reality they aren't even as good as some publisher's midlist hack. That's the magic of the egalitarian internet: everyone's equal especially when they're not.

[Guest Alien Pirate Pixagi]

This is actually something i realized. I sctually put a note up in my last story and on my user page telling people thaat a really thought out review that really tells me what the reader thought helps me more then "I love this story." Of course, this can also aid in less people leaving reviews. It can be intimidating to a reader, because they may not know how to actually LEAVE a critical review. Or, they may think that the author wants the bad points of the story and to the reader, there may be no bad points. I know I have read a couple of stories where the only issues I had were typos.

So really, it's a double edged sword.

[StoryJunkie]

I just remembered something that I did when I first started out.

Around the 3rd or 4th story I ever posted, I copied the e-mail addresses of 25 people who were online with me at the time I posted and sent out an invite to read my story. God, I was desperate. I told them, though, that they didn't have to review if they didn't want to.

[Guest Melody Fate]

The only drawback I see is that some reviewers who might leave the one line reviews might pass on leaving a review in that case. Some readers might think the writer seeks more comment than they are either prepared or feel qualified to provide. I’ve heard from several regular reader/reviewers that they simply enjoy the stories. They aren’t wrapped up in grammar/tense/formatting/pacing/continuation/etc. In that case, perhaps a note saying, “All reviews welcome…” or something to that effect that would prevent putting any distance between the writer and the “pleasure reader”. Those one line reviews of encouragement are equally, if not more important to me. The more of those I get, the more people I know are reading the story…and actually enjoying it.

Well, yes making sure your readers know that any reveiw is welcome is easy. "Any type of feedback is greatly appreciated." (Providing that's how you feel. As I said, there are people who don't want one line "I liked it" reviews)

My ideas are merely suggestions. But as a reader, I'd really appreciate knowing how someone feels about constructive critism. I confess, I've left, "Great story, please update" a few times, mostly because it's safe. Yeah, the writer won't jump up and down with glee, but she also won't be upset and leave little notes like, "If you don't like it, then why READ it? It's just a hobby!"

I don't care why someone writes. If they never want to hear a bad thing about their writing, I'm more than happy to follow their wishes. Of course, I might not read their stuff either, but that's the risk they take. If they want me to spare no feelings and brutalize their story, I'll do that as well. But I can't read their minds. I'm not going to waste my time writing a review that's going to be ignored.

[Guest Melody Fate]

I just remembered something that I did when I first started out.

Around the 3rd or 4th story I ever posted, I copied the e-mail addresses of 25 people who were online with me at the time I posted and sent out an invite to read my story. God, I was desperate. I told them, though, that they didn't have to review if they didn't want to.

*Laughs* As long as you didn't then send me another email saying, "So, did you read it? Huh? Did ya? Did ya?" I would have admired your spirit.

I think what you did showed spirit and a belief in your writing.

[Guest Melody Fate]

This is actually something i realized. I sctually put a note up in my last story and on my user page telling people thaat a really thought out review that really tells me what the reader thought helps me more then "I love this story." Of course, this can also aid in less people leaving reviews. It can be intimidating to a reader, because they may not know how to actually LEAVE a critical review. Or, they may think that the author wants the bad points of the story and to the reader, there may be no bad points. I know I have read a couple of stories where the only issues I had were typos.

So really, it's a double edged sword.

This is where tact comes into play.

"All reviews are so greatly appreciated" is a good start. Having heard some people bitch and moan that all they get are positive reviews, I'd like to know that even a one line "Great story!" would be helpful.

We're writers. We all should have the skill to gently ask without pounding someone over the head.

"All reviews are loved, appreciated, and very useful for inspiring me to continue. Praise makes me feel I'm doing a good job, helpful constructive critism can help me do an even better job. Please do not hesitate to let me know what you think, both the good and the bad."

We almost seem to feel our readers should know if we want/are strong enough to take/ critism. How can they know that if we give them no hint?

[Guest Melody Fate]

I once suggested on another forum that perhaps writers should include a note in their stories about what kind of writers they are, serious or hobbyist, which would help determine what kind of reviews they got. I thought it was a pretty good idea, at least until this mod started bitchslapping me about it. See, I think the problem is there are a lot of people writing stories who truly believe that they are serious, who truly believe that someday they will be published, when in reality they aren't even as good as some publisher's midlist hack. That's the magic of the egalitarian internet: everyone's equal especially when they're not.

What the hell was that mod's problem? It was a suggestion, and it's valid. Not everyone is writing because they want to be professional. It's not disgraceful either way.

As writers, we can always try, as you suggested, to nudge people into giving constructive feedback, but it still may not have the desired results. And I think some authors don't want to come across as "begging" for reviews (and I've seen people rant about how much they hate beggars).

I'm convinced that people who bitches about writers begging for reviews are people who want any excuse in the world to greedly suck down the hard work of others without ever giving a smidgen of effort in return. Deep down they know they're being selfish, so they try to come up with any excuse so they just don't have to do it, so they can feel good about themselves as they get all the free reading material they want, leaving others to have to make up for their selfishness.

I don't care how many times someone writes "Plz plz plz, review my story, plz!" it's still up to me. I've never let anyone's begging influence or discourage me from leaving a review, because it's a personal choice.

Yes, I admit that begging that promises something that isn't going to happen can irritate me slightly, but that's because we're not five year old. "Plz review, I'll give you cookies!" I always want to track down that writer and say, "Okay, where are my cookies?" To me, that comes off a bit like, Pretty please with sugar on top!" Once you're past grade school, it's time to outgrow that. But, even then, it's only their choice of words.

Why is it that a writer is supposed to be almost saint like? She's supposed to write her heart out, doing the best she can. She's supposed to find beta readers to polish her work and do rewrite after rewrite, polishing, shaping, doing everything she can to make her writing as perfect as she's able. Then, she's supposed to post it while hoping, but never expecting anything in return. She's supposed to respond to flames in a mature, rational way, maybe even beg for forgiveness for offending someone so greatly with her work that they felt they needed to flame her. She's supposed to show such overwhelming gratitude to anyone who reads her story.

If she's made a victim of godawful fanfiction, she's supposed to be a "big person" about it. If she tries to defend herself, then she's a big old baby who can't take the heat.

Oh bullshit. Writers are human beings. And no one and I mean NO ONE should be made to feel bad because they don't like having their work insulted in a cruel fashion. This is the bully mentality that's taken over the net. "We're assholes. We like being assholes. We're excellent at dishing out, we're lousy at taking it, so we've made up special rules. Our rules are, we can do whatever the hell we want. If you give back what you get, we'll round up more of our bunch to tell you how wrong you are. We will gang up on you and squash you like a bug. The only way to win is for you to kiss our asses and tell us how grateful you are to us for insulting your story."

I don't buy into it. I don't buy into people grousing about how writers should never beg. We're not saints. And I have much better things to do with my life than write stories nobody likes. I regularly let my readers know that it's their encouragement that keep me writing when I could be doing other things. Why? Because it's true. I tell them that their reviews keep me going, because it's true. And I have no trouble admitting that if I start believing people stopped liking my story, I would stop writing it. I have other ideas I could be writing, I have other things I could be doing. And if any reader ever tells me that their begging irritates them, my response would be, "Why? Feeling a bit guilty because you don't like to leave reviews? That's your problem, not mine."

It's always the reader's choice if they want to review. Since the writer is unable to force anyone to review her story, then unless the reader is feeling a tad... guilty, they shouldn't give a crap what a reader asks for.

Anyone who gets so upset about "begging" that they have to bitch about it, is someone I don't want reviewing my stories anyway. Chances are they'll have nothing usefull to tell me.

[NightScribe]

StoryJunkie, I liked that e-mail story, and here's why. I was halfway through a fic around the time the site started having trouble, but it was the one story where I was getting really good feedback. I was able to squeeze in the last chapters before the site went down again and no one could leave reviews. Not too long ago, I thought, hmmm, should I e-mail those people and ask "did you know the site's up and running again? Did you get a chance to read the finale? What did you think? Satisfied or disappointed with the outcome?" I haven't heard anything since I completed it, and it is a bit of a bummer, maybe people got tired of waiting and left, or they just don't care to comment. Hopefully, someone will come along eventually and say one way or the other.