Slayitalldown
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Posts posted by Slayitalldown
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I have a completed work that I require a beta for. This is a one-off project. It is complete it can be sent in one go (or broken down into manageable sections). No rush.
An interest in SPN helps but isn't essential - it's not particularly spoilery.
Het, AU, current season, original characters/monsters including original female character, smutt, violence and swearing but not much higher than MA or NC-17 (is the the mature audience one?). A few different pairings but nothing outstanding.
Basically a short-season arc story of adventure against an ancient mythical foe using an even more ancient mythical figure as an ally.
Alpha input would be appreciated!
First Chapter of the story in question.
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Hi! Marvel 'Verse might need a new category for Loki - the popularity of the character is going through a bit of a heyday.
I have a starter - http://xmen.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600091256
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Author: Slayitalldown
Title: Loki: Hel Hath No Fury
Summary: Stand-Alone Loki Story. After the events of Thor 2: The Dark World, Loki's story picks up. Beginning with a forgotten time in his own past, Loki's reign on the throne of Asgard comes to an abrupt halt. WIP
Feedback: Yes please! This is an experiment on my part to write a fic following a tight movie-script outline format. Pacing and structure are my focus (as well as you know, a ripping good yarn) but any and all concrit is warmly welcomed. I would much prefer to start conversations - I am still learning so I am always after new insight and information! I would love to hear thoughts, good bad or indifferent as it helps me develop as an artist and I appreciate others taking the time. I'm not much of a reader myself but would like to be more involved so examples are helpful too!
Fandom: Marvel Cinema Universe/Marvel Comics - Thor
Pairing: None
Warnings: Spoilers for Thor 1, Thor 2 and possibly Avengers?
Solo story or chaptered story: Chapters - Currently a WIP - Three chapters available so far.
URL: http://xmen.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600091256
Author's Note: This story has had a little bit of beta work for which I am extremely grateful but 99% of it is unbeta'd. I have yet to find a reliable beta who is compatible with my quirks - a rather tall order given their multitude and variety - so any and all errors are my own. I apologize in advance if any mistakes have made it through and distract from the story. I don't mind if they are brought to my attention, I appreciate the effort should it occur. Thanks for reading!
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I should probably have added that I am currently working on a Marvel spec script of sorts, masquerading as fanfiction while I try out something new. So far... surprisingly successful... I think...
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Hi, I'm a writer.
I would like to evolve some day (soon) into author and to that end, devote almost 90% of my existence to it in a fairly even ratio of learn:practice:panic. I live and breathe writing in all its forms. Am I any good at it? If I had any friends I would have to ask them.
I'm kidding, I have friends, I don't care what they think, they love me for my lewd humor.
As a wanderer, I keep relocating myself to different towns/states/countries with the only criteria being reliable postal service and steady internet connection. I'd join a writer's group and ask them but then I'd have to leave the house and I JUST got it the way like it. Besides, my social skills would be characterized as a 'work in progress towards a more equitable distribution of give and take with genuine segways between topics... and less pop culture references', so I prefer the diversity of the internet with the option of 'leaving' without actually having to go anywhere. It suits my disposition. And sleeping habits. Finding a beta and building a relationship with them is important to me, I believe it should be a mutually beneficial arrangement based on respect and at least a fairly cohesive outlook on work quality and desired outcomes. I'm passionate about ideas but I like to see them well presented so I'm something of a snob, I guess.
I'm always 'working on something' and its usually a one-project-per-fandom thing. Never drabbles, always 'epic novel-sized sagas' or screenplays and I am fairly bullheaded about getting to the finish line. I don't post often - for a variety of emotional reasons - and don't delve too deeply into fandom circles as I have too many things I'm a fan of. I prefer to work on one project with all my energy but in the back of my mind my original fiction is always ready to leap forward and take over. I live by my muses. They are fickle little things, keeping them in line is much like using chihuahua's to pull a sled... it can get messy and impracticle if I'm no disciplined!
I empathise with the work/life/family/writing balance but I don't sympathise with it due to my genuine obsession with writing and learning - outside of writing lies distractions, delays and irritations to I have discarded them all. This is, of course, temporary (if you call a patch between months and years temporary) - as I live by the cardinal rule that stasis = death - but I am focused 100% on the task and keep my own hours. Lucky me.
As I don't post very often I am basically in need of feedback from someone with a keen eye for detail. Not the usually spelling and grammar but someone devoted to the discipline and all its components, someone who reads, studies, listens to any and all writing advice with an insatiable desire to then apply any new tecnique described or word learned to their own work in progress, someone not too picky about what fandoms they enjoy and perhaps a personality that can tolerate the more ambitious side of human nature in someone who has an abundance of outward confidence and yet wobbles every first step like a newborn colt. If I can make it through the phase I am currently in, I will be ready for the far more serious (grown up) steps of agent-to-publisher with an editor somewhere in that mix. I live for the day that I am good enough to be cast upon the mercy of an editor. Like a full tilt masochist. You woulnd't think it of me but there is my dirty little kink.
Now you know all my secrets.
Please don't hesitate to PM me - I'm sure I get email alerts... although I've never tested the theory. I should go figure out how to turn that on - if you are interested in becoming a beta and/or require a beta. I do a pretty quick turn-around so don't be astonished to have your work sent back almost immediately but as I said I believe in a give and take so what I am more than happy to do for you I expect of equal value in return. I'm not good with drabbles, short fics and pwp as it doesn't hold my attention any more, I'm more of a six-legged-beast-on-a-spit-kind-of-story-girl. I'll be honest but kind, I would never be cruel and if I come off as rude it is completely unintentional, I'm just blunt. It is my way. I'm kind of a living info-dump.
That doesn't sound sexy, does it?
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On the subject of beta readers... I no longer use a beta reader for fanfiction purely and simply because I write big chapters and I'm impatient. I haven't built the kind of relationships online or in real life where 'hey, read this 10,000 word chapter? kthnxbai' is an acceptable utterance. Maybe its a personality flaw... I actually have a word-count limit dividing 'favor' and 'work'. Seriously, I would rather be a good enough writer that in fan fiction its not needed and as you say, in real life a professional is paid to wave a cat o' nine tails and scream "type, monkey!! Type faster and better!!" at me while I cower and desperately try to please.
There doesn't seem to be an in between market of beta-editors who cater to wannabe authors, those stuck in limbo between wanting to be good enough to be professional and not having mastered/perfected the skill despite a vast knowledge or god forbid, the education and training. If I was to send out a manuscript and it was sent back with 'no thanks' and nothing more I'd be driven to suicide. Not because I consider my writing a precious baby or expect it to be a masterpiece at the first, second or even seventieth draft before an editor would take it but because I have done everything in my tax bracket to learn, study and understand this craft. Unfortunately life tests you first then you learn a lesson, not the other way around and writing to write as best one can is hard without a patient beta armed with a red pen. The other issue is that despite understanding the need, I don't believe in the possibility.
I'm sorry but I don't believe in the unicorn that is a real-live human being with the experience to guide the leap across the chasm from wannabe to potential by saying 'sure! I would love to set my time aside to do that for nothing!' on a full-sized manuscript so I've aimed for being as good as I can be with what knowledge I have gathered and turning it into practice where-ever possible. I simply assumed that once I was brave enough to feel that what I had produced was worthy of at least an agent's time, the terrible and brutal experience that is making the dream come alive would begin as it does for everyone else without a 'writing-nanny' to see me off.
I am sure a beta would be amazing but I'm a kid from the school of hard knocks and we look at unicorn pictures but we know they're not real. We get our hands dirty and our armpits sweaty and we try and try and try out little hearts out but anyone who comes along to say 'hey, why don't you do it the easy way? I know a guy!' usually goes missing, never to be found. Its a long-held natural suspicion of shitty human beings (it could also be cultural) coming to take, rob or steal from the niave and thanks to being churned through that grinder in ways that shattered my life more than once, I have become perhaps a little protective of my writing in the sense that I would rather do things with the lights on... in an office where everyone can see me. I know that might be a self-imposed stumbling block but thems the cards I gots to play with.
I can't think of anything to make this less personal so I might tap out of this topic. I feel a bit nudged out anyway, but I did appreciate all the time and effort put into the answers I got and hope this helped out a few others as well.
Thanks, Slayitalldown.
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I have been vigilantly studying this topic and gobbling up every bit of advice I can find. So far, from what I can fathom there IS a formula but like a really good recipe it’s a lot of ingredients and flavours - the chef decides when it’s done.
I have appreciated the answers of all who weighed in - there are so many sides to consider! And it has been good to explore these theories all the way through. For each peice of advice there has been an adventure of exploration.
My digging has resulted in a textbook a mile thick and growing but the formula, while elusive, exists in many forms. It sure isn't simple. It’s insanely complicated and depending on the story, subject matter, topic, theme and outcome it’s a sea of variables but underneath are some rules that give you things to aim for. I've listened to nearly 800 podcasts, read no less than sixteen books (with dozens more to go!) and subscribed to... shit, like 40 blogs? There is an ocean of advice out there and I find a lot of it is 'same idea, different words' which has helped me enormously in digesting ideas I wasn't sure on.
I am in love with Writing Excuses, and Word Play by K.M. Weiland (she's a little dry and she plugs her own things for nearly a minute and a half but her podcasts are swift, informative and to the point, I haven't given up on her yet!) I sat in on a couple of writing panels at Comic Con which were also fantastic, hearing someone talk rather than reading information has helped me absorb it. I also bought a dictation program to help overcome writer's block - I discovered to my own delight that due to the difference in thought pattern between writing and talking I can overcome 'blocks' by simply dictating. In a way it helps me get down what I'm thinking in the way that I'm thinking it - when I use typing I get a little baffled by visualising words while images are playing in my mind. However if I'm imagining images rather than words and saying what I'm seeing, I get a much better output. No excuses!
I also made peace with 'Perfect Idea' syndrome. Some podcasts are very unforgiving in dissecting the psychology of writers and they pointed out things I wasn't even aware of. Perfect Idea Syndrome was definitely in there. Now my new companion is speech-cards to use for writing prompts!
There is a place for every bit of advice, it depends what your daily hurdle is. There is advice for the very fundamentals - how you should set up your work-space, what to use (George R.R. Martin uses a computer so old it’s a relic and his assistants live in terror of the day it dies) as an input device, how to look after yourself and manage your time depending on your situation. There is advice on basic English, sentence length and paragraph perfecting... pacing right up to try/fail cycles and how to get the best POV in a situation, whether or not writing exercises benefit writers, the psychology of writing, how to find and deal with agents, when to live the dream and quit the day job and what to do when you finally get a publisher. I’ve heard brand new first time authors, script-writers like Joss Whedon and George R.R. Martin discussing the craft, best-sellers and people who consider themselves almost total failures or rank amateurs interviewing agents, publishers, actors, authors and everyone in between.
I have to confess, I am enthralled by all that I have heard and read on this journey. Being immersed in it, living and breathing it – I can’t escape, it’s on my iPhone, iPad, iPod, laptop and soon-to-be “productivity” and “procrastination” work-spaces – yup, there will be two! – has helped me a lot more than forlornly dreaming and tuning in and out. I consider myself extremely lucky (as well as focused, diligent and a little obsessed) that I can pour all aspects of my life into this one dream and see if I have the mettle to make something of it (when I hit the ground, I’m still on walkabout for two more weeks!) but there is a MOUNTAIN of information to climb and keep climbing. I hadn’t realised that it would take so much information to pull the ‘real writer’ inside out. I’m still no closer to being a butterfly but my cocoon is coming along nicely!
It also has me pondering the ‘review, no, not that kind of review!’ for the casual review whores among us. Some like praise, others prefer concrit, others want all the reviews, others don’t care and I’m wondering if there’s a way to get an unofficial support network going. The ‘promote a story’ area could easily be used to push not just a story but enough about the author to understand what sort of review they require. Let’s not kid ourselves, reviews are water in the desert. A lot of reader/writers do their best to pay it forward by planting the good Karma, writers often demand reviews, beg for them or have more A/N’s than actual story in an attempt to fish for them and in all fairness as a reader I just want THE STORY and as a writer I just want THE REVIEWS. As a reader I need to be nourished with what I’m searching for before I review, as a writer I try to put as much as I possibly can into the story to ensure readers have a reason to review. I’ve received some spectacular reviews but to be honest the buzz is worse than light beer – it wears off so quickly! I never do get the answers to the questions “did I do ____ right/well and is ____ creating a payoff and did I obey all the rules and did I ____, _____, and ____???”
Maybe a ‘promote an author’ thread? Hi, I’m ________ and I write _____ because/for/about and I get the most from reviews that are ______.”
Just a random thought. Good writing is still up for interpretation, good writing is broad term for a complex issue and writing – hobby, lifestyle, obsession, interest, career or ambition is either too hard to summarise or I haven’t found the right words.
Yet.
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No, I think you might be onto something - they suspend your disbelief instantly and let you get carried away, the action and the setting/scenery/imagery are never far away from each other.
I try so hard to blend the two together. I find I struggle most with setting and action, I feel like the setting has to come first but it can be built into the boring parts of conversation so by the time its ACTION time to move the story forward the audience has a good sense of where they are where as at the same time, I feel like I should only explain the things people wouldn't know properly.
I remember in Forever Amber I always knew what time of day it was, what she was wearing and what her current beef was but the whole idea of that book was to bring the Court of King Charles II alive - people, setting and environment were all a huge part of the story because it took place in the Great Plague, the Great Fire of London AND the Dutch war... while the king was shagging whatever moved and catching smallpox for his trouble...
P.S. - I found a trick. When 'creating' I suppose, the brain works differently between writing and speaking. I got a dictation program and I'm finding that when I'm stuck in action its easier to dictate, it flows out and I feel like I'm part of it but if I'm trying to slow down and describe to ground setting and stuff, its easier to get it out of my brain by typing. Not sure this is everyone's cup of tea but if the chance arises for experimentation, its out there now.
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To make me spend money on a book, whether it's a fresh purchase, or replacing an old copy, the stories have to grab me. The author has to be a good story teller. There are some things I read as a child, that I'll reread still, simply because it's a good story. Andre Norton, Walter Farley, and Marguerite Henry were my favorite authors when I was very young, as an example.
Would I read those stories again? You bet I would.When I started broadening my reading horizons, thanks to my mother's sci-fi mag subscriptions, what engaged me was something which made me think. Made me look at it, and think that yes, this is possible, and how cool would it be if it actually happened? It just so happens that being a Trekkie (Mr. Roddenberry coined the term, by the way, and not in the way that many take it today), that in TOS, the screenplays were often written by science fiction, speculative fiction, and in some cases horror authors, most of whom I like to read. Robert Bloch wrote a screenplay for the series which he expanded further for inclusion in one of the Dangerous Visions anthologies, just as an example.
Writing about encounters with alien species, for example, I'd think wouldn't be easy at all. You need to construct that world and its people and culture. You then need to visualize and then put in words, how that culture interacts with humans.
I think reading tastes do vary. As a book buyer, I won't waste my money on something that doesn't grab me if I can possibly help it. When I have done that, those books go to a book store where I can trade in on something else, usually something I used to have, and no longer do.
Hmm.
(First let me say OH GOD ME TOO I LOVED THE BLACK STALLION BOOKS. Books from my childhood haunt me. There was another horsey-book author who's book I devoured and I remember very distinctly that it was the first book to make me cry - heart broken sobs of angsty feels even though now I can't remember the author name but something about a little blind boy and a 'wild' horse... he 'tamed' it by taking it up a mountain every dawn and wishing for his eyesight so he could see her, he goes away for eye surgery and she breaks loose and terrorises the village and when he comes back and find out he goes out to find her and the very first time he lays on his beloved pet mustang *BANG* some bastard shoots her. :'(
I'm adding this to the patchwork formula I am trying to devise.
I didn't consider stories where the 'unwritten words' were a bigger part of the story later on... I remember watching Atonement and thinking about it for weeks afterwards, simply because of the few minutes at the end. Prefer books that are like catacombs, Forever Amber, Earth's Children etc but they seem very 'unfashionable' despite being fabulous best sellers. I've never once met a person who admits they have read or liked them so I'm wondering where all the fans are hiding or if its a secret club that I shouldn't be talking about...
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I've told I write like Stephen King which does nothing to comfort me - I was imprinted very early on with the terror in which his books are supposed to be regarded!
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Nope. But even the best writer in the world needs someone objective to pick up the things they miss. As an author, I know what I want to happen. I know what's going on in the heads of all my characters. But am I slipping something in that throws off the story's chronology? Did I have a dread point of view wobble, and let the reader look into the wrong head for a moment?
The very hardest part for me was POV wobbles. To my dismay, if I'm writing from A's point of view, I can't refer to A as the blond. Why? Because it's A's point of view and he's not seeing himself. He doesn't think of himself as the blond. He doesn't notice his own eye color, or build, or height. So if I want to describe A, I need to wait to do it through someone else's point of view, which means a break. And you can't change point of view every two paragraphs, because you make the reader carsick that way. You yank them out of the world you're trying to build for them.
It's not easy to see this in your own writing at all, and now I find I'm actually looking for it. And that will make me a better writer in the long run, because my goal is to make my editor work hard to find my mistakes. (Hint: adverbs. I still like them too much.)
I would be devestated if (should I ever be so fortunate) I had an editor who told me I had made almost no mistakes and still had a bad story. I know that magic puts a body on the bones but I need to find out what these 206 bones look like so I can put stuff on them that makes them pretty to look at and fun at parties!
I have the sticky parts, the gooey bits and the wobbly peices but when I put it together it looks like... Abaddon, before she 'Thinged' her hands back on.
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I'm not sure that I would say a writer has to enjoy his/her own story at all times--sometimes the best you can hope for is satisfaction. Does this fit the theme I want? Is the character's reaction emotionally sound so as to draw my reader deeper? How well did I hit that dark note that should make a reader unwilling to look away? As a reader, how would I respond to this?
To be perfectly honest, as long as I am satisfied with how it all turns out, the readers seem quite happy, too. And the ones that aren't tend to be the ones who wouldn't buy a second copy of a novel when the first wore out. Fair-weather-fans of anything aren't supportive when life has puppies in your lap and you really need help, so, and I realize this is blunt: don't write to please your readers. If they enjoy it, great, but if you can't at least be satisfied with it, then it's not worth doing. (Generic "you".... Not trying to be offensive or pushy; I drifted into 2nd person.... Strange, really, since I usually drift between first and third, with nothing in between....)
As a reader, I find myself a sucker for stories with darkness, humor, realistic emotions, and characters/world(s) that are fleshed out just enough but not too much. Info dumps are a major turn off for me because I just don't retain all the details that way. Don't get me wrong, I love details, but I like them better when they're spaced out somewhat and not all in one place. Take a paragraph or two to describe something/someone, physically. Emotions and mental state are harder to get right--I went to my dad's college classes with him when I was little and I absorbed more than anyone expected me to, so I can be kind of critical of getting the emotions right. The thing about writing emotions, though--at least to me--is this: emotions that fit the situations will draw a reader in. I'd be the same. I'd be pissed/sad/angry, too. You want the reader to empathize with your characters, because it inspires a deeper connection, yes? So I'm of the opinion that using the correct emotional response (for the character in question; not everyone reacts the same way!) is a key element to writing well. It's not the only element, but it is one of them, and societal differences will weigh in on that equation, too.
And, yes, editing is big, too, but--as others have noted--you certainly seem to do well with it already.
Plotting a story ahead of time.... I won't say it's a waste of time, but you don't need to plan every little thing. List situations, events, maybe even conversations that you want to include, figure out if they need to be in any certain order, and then it's kind of like a Fill In The Blank game. Just try to get your characters from one point to the next. Sometimes they'll try to off track you, and sometimes it may work better for your story if you let them, but if the end result of the off tracking doesn't feel right to you, scrap it and try again. I don't know that there is any certain number of crises that ought to be included, but DG has a point--trouble comes in threes, right?
Three big problems, plus however many little disasters crop up along the way. If you get stuck at one scene, skip ahead to another so you keep writing. Let the part where you got stuck simmer in the back of your mind as you write ahead, and sometimes you'll have it all figured out by the time you get back to it.Tenses, now, past vs. present: Past is often easier to stick to in writing, but sometimes the action seems slow or just doesn't flow right. Present is difficult to stick to--which can be a turn off if the writing switches back and forth from 'is' to 'was'--and can cause a writer problems when deciding what phrasing to use, because, of course, it is the present and no one knows what's going to happen next except the author, who shouldn't be talking about the future in the present! (Sorry, it's a bit of a pet peeve....) Still, I feel it's a challenge every writer should try their hand at once, if not more than once. It gives them an appreciation for writing nuance that, I feel, many fan fiction authors lack.
I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I hope this helps!
I am loving all this advice but the concept of 'trying to please someone' as though I am out for my Pulitzer, can we please shelve that? Trying to convince me to be happy with my own work just because that is what I should be doing is not answering my question.
The goal of a writer is to write the best they can. To take the shapeless form ideas that are nothing more than a rush of emotion and the flash of an image and use words like a crystal to bounce ideas out of one mind and into another has a definitive set of rules.
Underneath the shape of every ballgown is the stitches that hold it together and the weave of every fibre. The painstaking effort to take a wad of fibres with no form and turn it in to an Armani is not about a little seamstress sitting in her rocking chair with her knitting needles only to discover "Well fuck me, a ball gown!". It is masterful skill and driven intent. No one who ever truly succeeded has said 'Oh, well, you know, I just fuck around and stuff happens and now I'm a published author because I just loved sitting on my ass for hours on end making shit up with no real intention of selling it because lets face it, we're all just running out the clock til the cancer gets us.'
What I am desperately trying to uncover isn't the wish upon a star, nor is it the power within, and it sure as hell isn't the giddy joy of accidental creation like an unplanned pregnancy. I am not trying to unlock the door to the Halls of Gratuitous Praise I am trying to solve the mystery behind the impulse of the faceless countless many who open their wallets and dump actual money on an actual counter for the opportunity to gaze into a mass-produced crystal - from the absolute crap that was the abomination known as 50 shades right up to the answers to the universe like... I can't think of the name of that terrible Tom Hanks movie and but I'm sure you know the one, the one knocking the chuch or the Bible or some nonsense.
No one is reading them into saying things like "My god, such skill such technique it must have been so much fun to write this book! Forget Disneyland! Take me on this cruise, I must feel this rush for myself!"
So what is that elusive pull that draws in so many - lets take a realistic look at the goals of a writer and be honest, how many are paying their bills with praise? - and makes them buy into the journey of 1000 pages? How can I use the map the project my imagery into other brains in the same fashion? All the joy and passion in the world, all correct grammar, all the neatly placed commas are just a big pile and useless fibre without a pattern. There are millions of patterns I am sure but let's face it, unless we are Lady Gaga there is a sameness to all of our tastes!
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So bottom line, there is no such thing as 'good writing', there is 'fluff about and scribble down all your random thoughts because end of the day, there's only good editing.'
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But isn't it the ambition that's getting in the way? If you want a recipe for writing ask Steven King because he has it down pat, story, after story, after story.
what you're looking for is totally intangible you can't grasp it because you decide its what you want. Its something that's there when you find it, yes after a lot of hard work and research, but you're not going to end up with a great peace of work because you found some holy grail on "how to write great works." People's taste are to fickle for something like that.
Call me naive if you want to but I still think you have to start by writing a story you enjoy, that applies to original stories to, then give that to a publisher and go through the revision process.
See this? Not helpful, FYI.
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Mildly innaccurate - right in principle but innacurat in the detail.
I am writing for myself but not to prove something to others, I just have a much higher expectation than 'she'll be right' which is why my frustration has occured. Minor detail, a word here or there and improvng on someone else's idea is no longer satiating the beast. I am no longer satisfied hunting small animals - I want to sink my teeth into a bear.
Perhaps I should have said "I am no longer writing for my own amusement" because I no longer find this amusing. I don't 'hope' to be a writer. I want to run into this battle screaming to live in triumph or die in glory.
Ambition has replaced amusement in a particularly agressive way.
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Honestly, fan fiction is a good way to get a feel for your voice as a writer. You have a cast of canon characters to play with, you have a world ready for you, and you even have, if not a plot line, certainly a good jumping off point for a story.
Have you seen these little packets in the stores? They have premeasured spices, a recipe, and an ingredient list. If you've never made chicken tikka masala, or apple and sage pork chops, these might be a good way to learn how to make the dish. After a few times, you'll find yourself improvising with the spices or proportions. Before you know it, you've made the recipe your own, and it's led you to create another recipe. One that doesn't rely on premeasured spices and a recipe card.
I still write a bit of fan fiction, but it led me to writing original work. It also taught me to sustain novel length writing. Don't knock fan fiction, because it's what gave me the courage to write.
I would never deny the greatness of fanfiction - it is an all-you-can-read buffet and for a writer it is a delightful playground. My concern is how dos one graduate from the school-of-hard-reviews to a published author without being eviserated emotionally?
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Here's a breakdown of my problem as a writer.
DREAM SEQUENCE:
I'm a cook.
I'm a writer.
"OMG, I love food! Can you cook me..."
"OMG, I read books! Can you write me..."
"No. I will be serving at this massive buffet with everything imaginable, buy a ticket, I'll see you there and maybe you can try what I've cooked already."
"No but you can read the book I've already written."
BUFFET NIGHT
BOOK STORE
*Thousands of steaming trays giving off delicious smells, all neatly presented with their chefs waiting behind them to serve*
*Thousands of neatly printed books with beckoning covers and enticing blurbs*
"Oh good, you came! Would you like to try my dish?"
"Oh good you came! Would you like to buy my book?"
"Sure, I would love to but I'm an insanely fussy eater who likes to try new things but I'm really only interested in the stuff I already like. I really like steak but I like it medium rare, I prefer pepper sauce, I'm allergic to nuts and I don't really like raisins, but I thought the spiced carrots looked interesting. What's in it?"
"I love science fiction but I am secretly in love with a whole bunch of characters already and I hate vampires and I like romance but I'm not sure about all this BDSM stuff. Your story looks kind of cool. What's the short version?"
"I tell you what, it doesn't have nuts and it is medium to medium rare and it comes with a cheese and pepper sauce. There are raisins but I think you're in for a nice surprise. Try it and tell me what you think."
"Its science fiction but there is a lot of character driven parts and a bit of smutt - dirty BDSM smutt. Have read, tell me what you think."
"Okay, I'll give it a shot, I have money to burn."
"You seem nice, here, take my money."
"OMG I LOVE THIS. It has RAISINS, PEOPLE - AND ITS DELICIOUS." "Shut the front door, raisins and steak?!?! Gimme some!!"
"Wow, this is great - love the smutt, I am giving this to my friend." "Teeheehee... it says boobies! I'm showing this to my husband!"
REALITY
"I'm a cook."
"I'm a writer."
"What do you cook?"
"What do you write?"
"I... made a sandwhich. I'm not sure how to cook."
"Fanfiction mostly. I'm trying to write a novel and I can't find a recipe for steak with raisins."
"Oh, they have books for that!"
"You're a freak." -
I'm going to respond as a reader. Me, I like plot and character development. I LOVE a slow burn in a story, for example. Thing is, with the stories I like which do this, and do this well, there is NOT an extreme emphasis on every little detail. The writer leaves some things to my imagination, which is perfect, as it ENGAGES me as a reader.
You will find as you post, that depending upon the reader, you'll either be prompted to get to the naughty bits right away, or being told that you're doing a good job, and that yes, we'll certainly wait until the naughty bits fit with the plot!
It's honestly a kind of pet peeve of mine as a reader, where I see a writer doing a damn good job, and then you have someone whining that they're not getting to the sex fast enough, because the damn site has "adult" in the domain name.
I'd rather read a well written story with no naughty bits, than a piece of dreck that is nothing but that with bad spelling and bad grammar. PWP has its place, yes. Well written PWP is fun to read. But to disguise it as a plotted story, is an insult to anyone's intelligence.What about as a paying customer?
The pleasure of writing has completely been lost to me at this point - I am chasing the dragon now. Its a need and it owns me and if I want any hope of control back, I have to figure out this mystery and I am counting on a secret map so I can find my own holy grail!
I am trying to write a story that has a plot but is also driven by its characters so - somewhere amongst their reactions to the device of the plot and each other lies the story I want to tell. I too prefer a slow burn - who doesn't - and I find getting straight to the naughty bits means readers aren't looking for a STORY and hello, people aren't wondering why fanfiction satiates such a wide audience! I actually wrote a 'PWP' and people wanted more of the story so I wrote them more 'PWP' and they are LOVING the story. Bastards. Its not giving me any insight into a world I am pulling out of my ass though - no one is going to wade through mud to get to sexy times that are too 'off the track' to find right away and yet you can make porn plausible with very little work - did somone order a pizza?
It also skews my motivation - I'm writing a complex peice of pornography with a long boring backstory instead of a long fascinating history in which two characters are driven by outside forces to save the world that includes 'oh my, they're boning!' on a few pages.
I understand enough about the mystery formula to know that a story needs tension and sex is like pouring soap into water - all the surface tension is lost and if you leave it in the sink it gets the wrong kind of dirty. The sink needs to be refilled every time with new water after the tension is broken and its the pull of conflicting forces not the tedious wait for more water that keeps the pages turning.
I know there is a recipe. I just know it. Once I can fit what I'm trying to say into that recipe I can start cooking and I am tired of being a kitchen hand... I wanna cook already!! But fear of failure is keeping me down. Sigh.
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Did you find a new beta or are you still taking applications?
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How much detail are you needing looked at and are you willing to return the favour?
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"Good writing" is the most nebulous phrase in existence. Personally, I think Hemingway was a troll and Fitzgerald was a parvenu.
Having summarily dismissed two literary icons so cavalierly, I define good writing as two things. One, it is technically correct. Two, I enjoy reading it.
Technically correct means getting the basics straight, and from your post above, I don't think that's an issue. Grammar and spelling are two things people neglect dreadfully, and schools no longer teach them adequately. Punctuation is a lost art. But especially when publishing online, they make a story readable. Without them, I personally won't even bother to try and puzzle my way through.
Enjoyment is the other thing that makes good writing, and that's so individual and impossible to define. I will read almost anything, although I have a preference for science fiction, fantasy, and historical settings. "Twilight" has largely ruined vampires for me, and we won't discuss the other fanfic-turned-original nonsense. I like characters who act, and talk, and engage me in their lives and plights. I like a bit of humor from time to time, especially at the worst possible moment. I like to have my imagination on full when I read. Yes, I do want to know what your character looks like in general terms, but let me imagine some things. Don't describe them down to the last mole.
And guess what? Other people will have very different ideas of what makes for enjoyable reading. That's the beauty of it all. No book will appeal to everyone, and no story is going to make everyone love it. As long as you are telling the story you want to tell, and as long as you do have a few people out there will to tell you that they like it because, you're doing good. If the hit counter goes up consistently, you're doing great. It means you may have shy readers, but they come back. You've hooked them.
There's no magic formula. There are basic rules, and while here online you can get away with flouting them, publishers and your editor will insist that you comply. Don't shift point of view from paragraph to paragraph. It makes readers dizzy. If you have two people of the same gender interacting, only one "he" or "she" per paragraph. Don't make the reader guess which one you mean. Read dialogue out loud. If it sounds silly when you say it, it'll sound silly when a reader reads it.
But aside from that, and the conventions of grammar and punctuation, it's your story to tell, and your voice that should tell it. Try writing without going back every few sentences to edit yourself. Like we do for National Novel Writers Month (and NaNo is a great deal of fun), get the rough draft down. Get a beginning and an end, know a bit about your characters and world, and then go for it. You can make it pretty afterward, with the help of a beta or not, as you choose. I love the three crises and an end gambit. It makes for fun writing middles, as I figure out what three awful things I can do to my poor characters.
Most of all, enjoy it. It comes across in your writing when you love being a writer. Readers can feel the passion you put into your work. Hells, I've forgiven George RR Martin for making me wait so long for Book 5 of his saga, because he loves his work and I love his passion. And his story.
Well, then. There's really no refuting that. I think I'll have that response cast in marble and passed to my descendants.
And you threw in the formula - three crises, I haven't found it ever so eloquently and simply outlined. And I was TRAWLING the other day (when I can't write I read and by golly I READ) for a simple breakdown of 'chapter goals' to help me outline and I stalled. All I could find was the 'first chapter goal' - hook the reader, introduce your characters, ground them in the setting, give them a puzzle to solve.
Then I could find a damn thing.
I got so hopeless lost in trying to make goals I implored my writers group for help and recieved a scathing response to the concept of plotting. Their philosophy was an adamant 'just write, like travelling across country by only what you can see in your headlights'.
I was so intimidated by the staunch opinion being expressed (in the area of "plotting is for sissies") I didn't even begin to point out that I am currently in the middle of an extensive road-trip and I rely on three electronic devices, a map and a compass just to get from one town to the next. Flexibility I can get on board with but no plotting leaves me cold with terror.
Mind you, the Nanowrimo approach scares me too. If I were to drive the way I write it would be with my maps in front of me and my eyes on the rear-view mirrior.
Come to think of it, now I understand why my every attempt at writing dies at the end of the driveway...
How is it a person can be entirely self-aware, have an arsenal of information and STILL be so utterly clueless until the obvious is pointed out?!?!?
This is why I'm not spy!!
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Hey! ^^
First off, I don't know how much this will help you, but I noticed it helps me a lot.
There are always 4 points I have to negotiate between:
Do I have a one person POV or an all-knowing storyteller? Do I want to dictate everything on my reader or do I want to inspire his fanatsy?
If I have the POV of one character, I try to think what he actually notices. What do I notice about my surroundings when I'm out? How can I mix that with my character's traits?
For the story-teller it's a bit more difficult to choose, there comes in the other question a lot.
On one hand, if I describe everything very detailed there can be readers, who think it's nice, but also those, who think it's boring (like a lot people say about LOTR for example). On the other hand, to inspire someone's fantasy, this person needs a fantasy first, what's somehow more and more rare today.
In the end, I guess, you have to test a lot (try to not think in pages ...) and think about what you'd like to read and who you want to adress. You can't adress everyone with one piece of work.
I for myself love it, to imagine a lot of the world ,about which I'm reading, on my own. It goes so far, that I myself sometimes write one story, but tell three with those little texts.
(Hope I'm understandable so far. English isn't my first language.)
Baba, Madea
Very understandable!
So, a certain amount of vagueness works - I must admit I do get a bit bored when I am being told in a story all about the landscape and its long extensive history, or worse, in the case of Jean M Auel - whom I otherwise adore - the technique for flint-knapping... blow by blow every time someone does it! It reads like a bloody manual. Yet the history of things is intriguing too... I admit that LOTR does bog down in the telling of the story but I then find George R Martin's books are reading like a gossip magazine with everyone fascinated by their own past... Cercei Lannister in particular seems to spend a lot of time polishing her internal trophies!
I just cannot seem to grasp it in my own writing. It always seems so threadbare as I try to focus on the action - my POV is a poor budget B-Grade movie with a lot of 'vaseline on the lens'!
So now I'm wondering, is this not a technique issue but an issue of confidence - how do I tackle (and overcome) this hurdle?
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I am struggling with my original fiction and I am wondering if there is some sort of checklist for scene building and character building. So many advisory articles say things like 'don't just tell us your character is beautiful'. Well, how the fuck do I make an attractive character without stating 'blue eyes, black hair, the most kissable pair of lips and an ass that won't quit' without a) having another character say that or b) having the POV character perving on themselves in the mirror?
I find 'show don't tell' the most useless bit of advice in all of the writing world. I JUST DON'T FUCKING GET IT.
How far into a story does a reader need to be before they can 'see' what is going on? How much do they need to see? If I have a scene where two characters are walking in the bush, how much do I show, how much do I tell? Do I start with 'it was a bright sunny day, cicadas were chirpy, birds were flying around, wind rustled in the trees and Johhny's boots crunched on the deadfall beneath them' before I launch into Johnny bragging about his new camera-phone or do I start with Johnny bragging and then describe the forest in drabs - 'the crunching under his boots making him speak louder, the sun making him squint, the cicadas droning getting on hi nerves'.
I keep reading 'keep it relevant to the story' but how relevant exactly? Does the reader need to know if they red gums or salmon gums or pine trees to qualify as 'bush'? Does Johnny have to be described in every detail or is it enough to know he's a bipedal male? What is the difference in detail to separate 'good' writing from 'absolute crap' and 'pointless waffling in an attempt to be good'?
What is GOOD writing anyway? Is it the choice of words, the number or words or some X-Factor quality like good singing and fine art?(I saw a tweet the other day from Joss Whedon - "A story is ten words" and he managed it with 'The head was removed carefully, the gown less-so". Good writing or cleverness and celebrity?)
It could be a crippling lack of confidence but I start to write and everything I write feels... like I've drawn it sloppily with a crayon and I have explain what my picture is afterwards like I'm still in preschool. I am utterly lost as to what fits where anatomically. I know the basics - head at the top, two legs, two arms, add fingers and hair - but all my writing comes off kind of 'stick figurey' with lots of white on the page and now I'm not even sure if I CAN write... is this a confidence, technique or talent issue? I look at my writing and I can see what ISN'T there but not what SHOULD be there and beta's seem to (in my experience) want to praise the words I managed to find but not coax more. (This is not a bad thing - betas are amazing but my relationship with betas is complex)
I want to be a good writer - the best I can be - and not just an adequate or functioning one as I'm sure we all do but I am finding the more writing I do the more frustrated I become. I learn something, attempt it and someone will point out something else that I have utterly failed at that I wasn't even aware of. So I research til I'm blind, plot my ass off and end up back where I started - fearful of the blank page, even more so of a full one.
I have the ambition so where can I find ways to maximise the skill? I practice but honestly, all I have is pages (and pages and pages and PAGES) of stick figures wearing down all my hope. I feel like the more I write, the unhappier I become and it doesn't seem right!
Surely someone has had this problem before me and has link or two that will offer a solution? -
Author: Slayitalldown
Title: Danger Danger, Naughty Naughty
Summary: Katherine, Elena, Sam and Dean - together. Elena, hunted and troubled, is trying to learn what it is to be a vampire while on the run with Katherine. The devious femme-fatale has softened towards her newly turned doppelganger and arranges a gift - a night with the two most dangerously delicious men she has ever been introduced to.
PWP, femslash and romping in expensive sheets.
Feedback: Feedback - especially concrit - is very much welcomed and will be hugely appreciated.
Fandom: Crossover - The Vampire Diaries and Supernatural - both owned by the CW and not by me!
Pairing: Katherine and Elena, Elena and Sam, Katherine and Sam, Elena and Dean - Foursome romping.
Warnings: Smutt, Femslash/Bi-Sexual Activity, Graphic Foursome with Partner-Swap, Crossover
Solo story or chaptered story: Solo one-shot
SPN - There's a Third Option?
in Promote a Story!
Posted
Author: Slayitalldown
Title: There's A Third Option?
Summary: Abaddon finds a new weapon in her war against Crowley, forcing Crowley to recruit Team Free Will to his cause. They find a third option to their mounting problems. M/F,OC - An adventure story mixing Norse and Egyptian mythology.
Feedback: Yes please! Still looking for a beta so all current chapters (3) are unbeta'd.
Fandom: Supernatural
Pairing: Not sure yet?
Solo story or chaptered story: Chaptered