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How Do You Fend Off Stagnation in Your Works?


Tcr

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Recently, I was reading an article discussing the idea of how two of my favourite series were falling back into the cave, refusing to break the mold with new things.  Stagnating.  While I would normally want to argue this fact, I couldn't.  Both Star Wars and Star Trek have remained in their safe little bubbles.  They're pushing things out too little, too late (ie Star Trek and their celebrated first open LGBT character who, while the best character of the series so far, comes far too late to be as groundbreaking as they'd like to think) or rehashing ideas like Star Wars since Disney took over...  (Sorry, that backstory is done... throw tomatoes now...)

Either way, the article got me thinking, as writers, how do you not fall into the trap and keep stuff, so to speak, fresh?  Rather, do you push your comfort zone and try new things?  How?  And did it work for you?  

In my case, I branched away from sci fi.  Lately, I'm right back in it, but I've got several that aren't.  The farthest is definitely Hunted...  I'll be the first to admit, I'm probably the last person who thought I'd be writing a vampire fic.  Then there's the wider inclusion of varying characters that kind of started with one I don't have on here, that continued into BaH and throughout the rest of them.  In my case, I think it worked.

(And I've probably rambled enough that everyone's pulling their hair out in wild frustration or yelling at screens...  So before the throwing knives come out, I'm getting out of here.)

 

 

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Kinda by accident, in how I’ve gone about my original universe, I think I’ve got enough to last a lifetime of writing.  If I had stuck to just the main story, it’d expire faster, however, I’ve been doing a lot of backstories instead, exploring some of the elements and mechanisms within the universe before I embark on the main story.  Even still, with how it’s set up, there’s opportunities for future battles, detective series, a “reality” like story (ie, cops), more character developments, etc. 

I like Star Trek, however, most of the series were rather formulaic, cookie cutter, with a set patterns of episodes, warping to the next planet/star-system to start fresh.   When DS9 started introducing some continuity between shows, it became a lot more interesting.  I haven’t seen the latest (Discovery), however, the earlier shows fell into the same series of ruts.

-- DP

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Well, since I’ve been writing oodles of het stuff lately, I’m counting myself as trying something new. Also, I’ve written a few things in particular recently that have had me eyeing the spirits cabinet with longing, though I swear I haven’t touched a drop.

It’s an interesting question, though I don’t think we should be afraid of having recurring themes in our writing. Many great writers have them. For myself, having discussed this just the other day, it’s becoming clear that I have a tendency to write varying degrees of comedy and wretched despair. Sometimes I mix them together in strange ways.

As for branching out into other genres, it’s harder to do with fanfiction, really. But ‘write what you know’ is good advice for the most obvious reason of all: being that there’s not much point in writing a story set in 18th century France if you don’t know the first thing about it. As far as historical fiction goes, much better to play with a period that you’ve previously had a hobby interest in, or else risk getting lost in the research. Also, write what you love, because even if you’ve done it a million times before, your love will show in what you produce at the end.

Well, that’s what I tell myself, anyway.

 

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17 minutes ago, pippychick said:

It’s an interesting question, though I don’t think we should be afraid of having recurring themes in our writing. Many great writers have them. For myself, having discussed this just the other day, it’s becoming clear that I have a tendency to write varying degrees of comedy and wretched despair. Sometimes I mix them together in strange ways.

Certainly, recurring themes can be good, and I most definitely have them, because, collectively, all of my stories on AFF, so far, have been different angles/aspects/periods to the same general over-arching story.  I specifically date my narratives too, more for my sake if I need to read a previous story, to see when something happens, for consistency, which I try to maintain between my stories. 

However, the nature of television, with the uncertainty on getting contracts renewed, and pressure to stay within the patterns of previous success, is most likely why Star Trek, and similar shows fall into the trap of stagnation – Star Trek even has some gag flowcharts out there that are spot on, with effectively insert $alien, $danger, and $technobabble, and it becomes alien-of-the-week.  With writing, we’re not on multi-million dollar budgets, but instead in our free time, so we don’t have the same pressure for repeated performance.  (I’d reckon that professional authors, though, could fall into the same trap if they’re getting overly pressured from their publishers.)

28 minutes ago, pippychick said:

But ‘write what you know’ is good advice for the most obvious reason of all:

Well, admit I don’t follow that one too closely, otherwise the sex scenes in my stories would be few and far between ….

However, for the overarching main story in my universe, it is my field of expertise, so I could figure everything out in way too much detail; thus, I do ballpark calculations, and be happy with nice, round numbers.

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6 minutes ago, Desiderius Price said:

Well, admit I don’t follow that one too closely, otherwise the sex scenes in my stories would be few and far between ….

Well, sex in the context of writing is just a little bit like cake. I mean, you get the flour, eggs, sugar and fat, and you can make any version of any cake type thing you want. It’s all just a question of quantity and combination… um, technique… and there you have it! It was a plain old victoria sponge with a bit of jam, now it’s a decadent moist madeira. Or maybe it’s even a multitude of cupcakes with swirly buttercream icing… :yes:

Don’t judge me – it’s Christmas.

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3 minutes ago, pippychick said:

Well, sex in the context of writing is just a little bit like cake. I mean, you get the flour, eggs, sugar and fat, and you can make any version of any cake type thing you want. It’s all just a question of quantity and combination… um, technique… and there you have it! It was a plain old victoria sponge with a bit of jam, now it’s a decadent moist madeira. Or maybe it’s even a multitude of cupcakes with swirly buttercream icing… :yes:

Don’t judge me – it’s Christmas.

So where are you mixing these ingredients, and do you need a bigger funnel? :)

 

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2 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

However, the nature of television, with the uncertainty on getting contracts renewed, and pressure to stay within the patterns of previous success, is most likely why Star Trek, and similar shows fall into the trap of stagnation – Star Trek even has some gag flowcharts out there that are spot on, with effectively insert $alien, $danger, and $technobabble, and it becomes alien-of-the-week.  With writing, we’re not on multi-million dollar budgets, but instead in our free time, so we don’t have the same pressure for repeated performance.  (I’d reckon that professional authors, though, could fall into the same trap if they’re getting overly pressured from their publishers.)

3 hours ago, pippychick said:

But ‘write what you know’ is good advice for the most obvious reason of all:

Well, admit I don’t follow that one too closely, otherwise the sex scenes in my stories would be few and far between ….

However, for the overarching main story in my universe, it is my field of expertise, so I could figure everything out in way too much detail; thus, I do ballpark calculations, and be happy with nice, round numbers.

This is pretty much what I was going to say. Both points, lol. On TV shows, a lot of editing and decision making has to go through a number of people. When a number of people are involved in one decision, in my opinion, they tend to drive each other along a specific pattern. One person wants to take a risk, and seven more people hmm and haw over it for a while and compromises are made. I think that’s when the stagnating happens. Moral of the story? Fuck teamwork, I guess. 

And yeah, I definitely don’t follow the write what you know thing. I follow the write what you’re interested in knowing thing. Write what you love, or write what piques your curiosity. As long as interest or love is there, as pippy put it, I definitely think it’ll show. Annnd if you don’t wanna get lost in the research, go my favourite lazy route! Fantasy world based loosely on 18th century france or ancient greece or whatever! 

Anyway, back to the original question. I think it’s much easier to avoid stagnation when you make all the decisions. Though if you’re like me and you go where your inspiration takes you, there will be a lot of recurring themes, simply because I tend to get inspired by specific, similar things. Luckily there are all kinds of ways to keep them fresh. I mean Stephen King has written how many books about horror shit in New England? People still love him. Some audiences like knowing what to expect from authors. Using recurring themes and settings across most of your stories can breed that sort of security. I know when I really like a book and I go look at what else the author wrote, I go hoping for similar things, and if I find all kinds of very different things, I’m often disappointed. There’s nothing wrong with a rut, as long as that rut is a friggin enjoyable rut. 

But sticking to a set formula, as a writer, isn’t nearly as fun. I desire variety. I want to try all kinds of genres – all kinds of pairings and villains and heroes. I wanna do feminist fiction and nautical shit, and senseless, horrifically depraved smut. However, most attempts to venture from what I’m good at or certain of will die on the cutting board and never see the light of day, but I think it’s important to explore those dead ends when you feel the urge. Even if just to get it out. 

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I do several things to try to avoid “sameness” in my writing. The one I’m engaged in right now is writing a story based on someone else’s idea. I recently got my 300th follower on Inkbunny, and I celebrated with a story raffle: Anyone following me could submit a story idea, and I randomly selected a winner and am now writing a story based on the winner’s idea. I’ve done this a couple of times before, and both times, I’ve been happy with the result, even though the ideas were ones I would never have come up with myself. 

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1 hour ago, CloverReef said:
Quote

This is pretty much what I was going to say. Both points, lol. On TV shows, a lot of editing and decision making has to go through a number of people. When a number of people are involved in one decision, in my opinion, they tend to drive each other along a specific pattern. One person wants to take a risk, and seven more people hmm and haw over it for a while and compromises are made. I think that’s when the stagnating happens. Moral of the story? Fuck teamwork, I guess. 

(Anesor) I think there are a lot of group enterprises where the leader must have a vision that moves the story/election/season/series forward. The success of that project depends on how well the group implements that idea.  If the group nerfs the project is can still suck. And an enthused group can’t fix a broken or weak idea. ST:TMP springs to mind. J Michael Strazinski and Joss Whedon’s signature creations depended on that vision, that they implemented despite hirdles involved. It take a team to implement, but one person with a vision to have something to implement.

Quote

Anyway, back to the original question. I think it’s much easier to avoid stagnation when you make all the decisions. Though if you’re like me and you go where your inspiration takes you, there will be a lot of recurring themes, simply because I tend to get inspired by specific, similar things. Luckily there are all kinds of ways to keep them fresh. I mean Stephen King has written how many books about horror shit in New England? People still love him. Some audiences like knowing what to expect from authors. Using recurring themes and settings across most of your stories can breed that sort of security. I know when I really like a book and I go look at what else the author wrote, I go hoping for similar things, and if I find all kinds of very different things, I’m often disappointed. There’s nothing wrong with a rut, as long as that rut is a friggin enjoyable rut. 

(anesor) I think we should be careful about overusing the term ‘rut.’ What is it, there’s only X number of basic plots? And one we prune for setting, there’s fewer.  But the basic quest, the basic hero of a thousand faces has a billion stories. And how many times have you read a story where a clever writer may make no particular change to an old trope, but it is written so well, you don’t care. I suspect there is no trope that cannot be revived by a good writer.

What we’re really meaning as rut, are things like when it’s done by the numbers, rut by publisher design.  Repeating themes, character-types, settings are the meat and potatoes of fanfic. They repeat because I think many enjoy the tropes of that fandom. Also 2nd kind of repeat/rut, is because the readers and writers are still coming to terms with broken or abandoned themes and events of canon. (Wait! this makes no sense in canon! ‘if it’s not alright, it’s not the end’ You can’t kill that character, they’re the heart of the series!) Other so-called third ruts, are themes the writer’s muse may get off on. I know my muse loves doing struggling for redemption and forgiveness. Figuring out doing the right thing when that can be very slippery and the stakes are high. Scripted ‘hack’ writing as it’s seen by outsidersoften is not. Dickens and Alcott write stiff that ha dno respect, but they also wrote classics. A lot of big name writers started in harlequin and potboilers. Ruts are only bad if they are boring and you no longer enjoy it.

And, if I get stuck, I change fandoms or projects. My favorite theme remains, though.

 

 

 

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@Anesor Not entirely sure if you were agreeing with me or disagreeing. There wasn’t anything you said that seemed to debate my points at least? Though admittedly I bristled when you said “I think we should be careful about overusing the term ‘rut.’” and now I want to use the term even more lol. 

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9 minutes ago, CloverReef said:

@Anesor Not entirely sure if you were agreeing with me or disagreeing. There wasn’t anything you said that seemed to debate my points at least? Though admittedly I bristled when you said “I think we should be careful about overusing the term ‘rut.’” and now I want to use the term even more lol. 

Rutty Rut Rut, that’s what the sleigh became, rusty ruts.

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  • 3 weeks later...

How to fend of stagnation. Easy. Know when to stop writing. The biggest problem with stagnation is when a work gets trapped by it’s own fandom. Star trek and Star Wars have fared better than many. where this is most prevelant is in the world of comics. What was the last major change that occured tro batman as a character, and I mean as a person, not a change in his ability.

The trust is a story is an idea, a question. But once the question is answered you have to know to move on. When a series exists only to please fans , then it becomes beholden to those fans. You can’t change things up majorly because the fans will in most cases hate that. Fans, for all their complaints, generally want very little deviation from the status quo.

If you must keep writing, one good trick is to take the same world but approach it from a different angle. But again, this also creates a problem with publishers. Publishers don’t like, strange and different, they don’t know how to market that or who to market it to. Once a series makes a name for itself as X, publishers generally want it to stay as X.

 

This is why Sherlock holmes novels begin to fall into a pattern after about the 5th story Stagnation comes when the story exists for the sake of the readers, not for its own sake. granted, a story must always factor the desires of the reader, but it should never be beholden to those expectations.

 

TLDR:

If you want to prevent stagnation:

  1. Stop writing that story and start a fresh story, ine  fresh setting with fresh characters., Or even in the same setting with fresh characters.
  2. Make sure your story has a message, and make sure its not a message you’ve already written a story on. If the reason for writing is, for the fans, or for the money, then you probably shouldn’t write it.
  3. You can also embrace the stagnation and make it the theme of the story itself.
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On 12/28/2017 at 3:32 PM, Desiderius Price said:

Kinda by accident, in how I’ve gone about my original universe, I think I’ve got enough to last a lifetime of writing.  If I had stuck to just the main story, it’d expire faster, however, I’ve been doing a lot of backstories instead, exploring some of the elements and mechanisms within the universe before I embark on the main story.  Even still, with how it’s set up, there’s opportunities for future battles, detective series, a “reality” like story (ie, cops), more character developments, etc. 

I like Star Trek, however, most of the series were rather formulaic, cookie cutter, with a set patterns of episodes, warping to the next planet/star-system to start fresh.   When DS9 started introducing some continuity between shows, it became a lot more interesting.  I haven’t seen the latest (Discovery), however, the earlier shows fell into the same series of ruts.

-- DP

Oh good, I’m in good company.

Oceania I can write about forever. There’s alot of history there. As is expected when characters have incredible longevity. Character conflicts can last for millennia.

Since one of the main characters is 102,50 year old.

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3 hours ago, InvidiaRed said:

Oh good, I’m in good company.

Oceania I can write about forever. There’s alot of history there. As is expected when characters have incredible longevity. Character conflicts can last for millennia.

Since one of the main characters is 102,50 year old.

So, the 100 year old war is a minor spitting match between neighbors?

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If a story becomes a series without plans to continue on, it can stagnate rather easily.  I don’t think that the creator of Batman thought the series would still be in ‘original publication’ almost eighty years after the first issue hit the news-stands.  Cubby Broccoli’s daughter had to reboot James Bond because people were no longer willing to suspend their disbelief of an early-Cold-War licensed assassin continuing to work when the daughter of the King who first commissioned him was a white-haired grandmother and the sons of the Prime Ministers who had that duty had died of old age.

Whether by accident or design, the Star Trek and Star Wars universes were open-ended and broad enough to allow for countless stories and adventures.

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22 hours ago, Desiderius Price said:

So, the 100 year old war is a minor spitting match between neighbors?

<3 Essentially yes. When you got long lived races with millenia+ lifespans in a world with peoples with normal life spans

It might seem insane but a little war here and there is just good neighborly manners.

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  • 4 weeks later...
50 minutes ago, Love_Hina_Fan said:

I rip things out by the roots and start all over again. It may piss my readers off, but it keeps me from getting stale.

“SMILES”

I’ve got too much in my universe to even begin to contemplate that.  If I need a new plot, I start a new story.  As it is, I don’t think I’ll finish my universe in my lifetime, so I have to focus on the important things.

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  • 3 months later...

The only way to avoid stagnation is to stop writing. Really thats it. There’s also author stagnation and imposed stagnation.

One is where the author themselves has no new ideas or point to the story and is just churning out stories strictly for the money, and to accomplish this they retain a tried and true formula.

The second is where it is teh audience that is unwilling to accept new ideas and therefore the author is forced to basicallky conform to the expectations of the audience they have cultivated over the years.

This is one of the reasons many authors have a pen name or two where they can actually break out of their moulds.

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21 hours ago, PenStoryTeller said:

The only way to avoid stagnation is to stop writing. Really thats it. There’s also author stagnation and imposed stagnation.

One is where the author themselves has no new ideas or point to the story and is just churning out stories strictly for the money, and to accomplish this they retain a tried and true formula.

The second is where it is teh audience that is unwilling to accept new ideas and therefore the author is forced to basicallky conform to the expectations of the audience they have cultivated over the years.

This is one of the reasons many authors have a pen name or two where they can actually break out of their moulds.

That’s an interesting (and kinda depressing) take on it. I’m not sure that I agree that it’s the only way to avoid stagnation. I think if you feel stagnation setting in, taking a break as I think you’re suggesting, is absolutely one way to handle it. Take time away so you can come back and look at things with fresh eyes, but it’s not the only option. You can fend it off by taking risks, writing in a different genre, or indulge in something you wouldn’t normally indulge in. For some writers, writing exercises and prompts help. 

Also, I just wanna say I love your definitions. 

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I had to think about this a bit, but stopping writing altogether is not the way to stop the stagnation. That only ossifies the problem and makes it even harder to start again. I think stagnation is another flavor of block. I think a writer or two that I really liked in an earlier fandom, kept reskinning the same period and setting. The writing was still good, the new leads had  different issues, but the spark was either missing in the writing or the reading-repeating. If you don’t figure out why you’re in a rut, you will just repeat that cycle later in a new rut… until you find the off-ramp by luck. Some paperback writers make solid careers of a marketable rut.

Stopping writing is like selling your car because you’re sick of the daily commute to work. It misses the issue with dramatic overkill. It only makes new problems, especially if you live somewhere without a good rapid transit.

Is the stagnation because you keep writing the same kind of story over and over? (does it shift back to ‘a script’) Or because no noticeably different stories appeal to your muse? (you can’t force your right brain to follow your logical plans)  Listen to that muse, it doesn’t speak clearly, but it gets bored in ruts. Look for fresh air in a new fandom, new genres, or even strike out into original works to sell. Those will refresh everything.

The basic romance that is the core of a large portion of fanfic is a formula, a rut, but that doesn’t mean you have to feel stagnant.  Pride and Prejudice are as much in the genre as Twilight, so there is a LOT of elbow room in that genre.

A new penname is only useful if your fans will not be willing to accept a change in your writing.  And maintaining them as separate can be a lot of work, and alienate them anyway. One writer I liked their earlier penname better, and since then they abandoned that subgenre, I’ve gradually stopped reading them and the newer ones are really in ruts.  Chasing after the other pennames got too confusing and tiring. (I plan to keep only two, fanfic and original fic) 

If all you write are kidnapping hedgehogs and are thinking of changing but afraid your fans won’t accept your story of stopping the evil milkmaid empire, start with a smaller story to test it. Your fans may surprise you and thrive on buttermilk! (this was supposed to be a short answer :wow: but...)

 

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