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Final Fantasy XII


ZombieDuke

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++SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!++

Does FFXII seem a little... short? unsure.gif

I'm about 85 hours in, finished up the Pharos tower and I can go face Vayne himself, but it seems like there's this gap I'm missing. I've talked it over with my brother (who gave up 25 hours into it btw) and we've come to the agreement that it's more likely the lack of a over world map, instead of running from screen to screen, that shortened up the game. And the lack of in-game mini-quest too (I'm not talking about the rare monsters, or the hunts, or the fishing, or the racing, dear god let's not forget the racing; I thought I was having a FFVII squatting flashback while racing against Rikken).

What I'm saying, is that there is a really good story, a really interesting story in there (I wanted more information about Basch/Gab!) and maybe I'm counting it short seeing as how I haven't finished it yet, but it just seems too short for the story it holds...

Any thoughts about it?

++END OF SPOILER!!++

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Well, unfortunately SE managed to fix the battle system/gameplay for FFXII, but imo forgot to include a story. If you remove all the hunts / grinding for levels (and the good few hours I spent stuck in the stupid area before Giruvegan, where I went from lvl 35 to 55) there really isn't much left. By the end of the game the judges dropped like flies and what little plot there was, was disjointed at best.

Its been discussed before, and I'll say it again, Vaan + Penelo had no reason to be there. The complete lack of a story or any character development meant I couldn't finish the game soon enough (if I can't connect or relate to the characters, what is the point in playing) - i was at about 75hrs when I completed the game and got fed up of hunting ULTRA ELITE MARK's to be rewarded with... 5x antidote + 3 phoenix downs.

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The game is alright, and the characters are interesting, but the only two that have really grabbed my attention are Balthier and Fran. I agree that Vaan and Penelo are the least intriguing characters. Though, I have had the urge to do a Balthier/Vaan one shot fic. Hmmmm.

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Guest Big Samurai

(Eighty-five hours is short now? It took me eighty to beat FFVIII, and that was with me doing almost all of the extra stuff.)

The story going to pieces as it progresses is the result of Mr. Plot himself (Matsuno, also Mr. FFT and Mr. Tactics Ogre) disappearing from the development of FFXII after the first 'chapter' due to extreme illness, from what I have read.

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(Eighty-five hours is short now? It took me eighty to beat FFVIII, and that was with me doing almost all of the extra stuff.)

(It IS short! Is it too much to expect a game with 120+ hours of game time, and not counting all the extra goodies?)

I was more curious about Basch and his brothers background (then again, maybe I'm missing something from not having completed the game) then I was about Balthier and Fran. I halfway agree with you TerraBreaker, I don't know what Penelo was doing there but I kept waiting for Vaan to be discovered as a prince because only he could get that damn red stone shining.

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Guest Big Samurai
(It IS short! Is it too much to expect a game with 120+ hours of game time, and not counting all the extra goodies?)

That strikes me as overkill. It is difficult enough to play a game that eats 20-40 hours when one is working full-time. A commitment of 120+ hours is a little excessive for gamers who have other constraints on their time, IMO.

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That strikes me as overkill. It is difficult enough to play a game that eats 20-40 hours when one is working full-time. A commitment of 120+ hours is a little excessive for gamers who have other constraints on their time, IMO.

...You have a point Big Samurai ph34r.gif

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Guest Evil_Labs

Unfortunately, it's symptomatic of the whole casual gamer versus hard core gamer battle. The sort who think if you can't beat Ninja Gaiden on hard difficulty (where Hayabusa literally stabs you in the face through the screen) then you're no gamer. Extreme length doesn't always equate to good content, so it really works out better when they concentrate on the quality of what they have and not 120 hours of 'all right' with crap thrown in.

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Unfortunately, it's symptomatic of the whole casual gamer versus hard core gamer battle. The sort who think if you can't beat Ninja Gaiden on hard difficulty (where Hayabusa literally stabs you in the face through the screen) then you're no gamer. Extreme length doesn't always equate to good content, so it really works out better when they concentrate on the quality of what they have and not 120 hours of 'all right' with crap thrown in.

But then there are short games that just scream out for more and the companies that make the games end up selling extra bits of the stories on other devices to earn more money. Take FF:DoC The Lost Files(I think that's what they're called) for example; it takes place while your running around one place and instead this lost file adds more information to the story line (not to mention you can only get it on a cellphone). It's the same with KH I and II and FFX-II International version, they sell one version then a few months later re-release the game with added goodies.

I'm not saying FFVII was a short game, but at least the game was IMO good enough for many sequals and prequals. I know that there is a game coming out for the DS with follows the characters in FFXII but at what point do games just say "Enough is enough! Give us a complete working game that will make us want to play any sequals that you throw at us!"

Arrrrgh, now it's all rambled I've forgotten what I was trying to say dry.gif

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But then there are short games that just scream out for more and the companies that make the games end up selling extra bits of the stories on other devices to earn more money. Take FF:DoC The Lost Files(I think that's what they're called) for example; it takes place while your running around one place and instead this lost file adds more information to the story line (not to mention you can only get it on a cellphone)

Time for a sweeping statement here i think - cellphone games are a waste of time, and pretty crap overall.

On the topic of FFVII - it was a great game in its own right, and does not require SE's late cash-in's which have seemingly been instigated by the ever declining sales of the series since FFVII.

The Revenant Wings thingy on the DS appears to be an attempt to add "some" personaility to the fragile cast of FFXII - unfortunately I couldn't connect to any of the cast due to lack of any char development in XII, subsequently my interest in the spin-off games is diminshed.

I'm not saying that I dislike long games (I spent 130ish hours on Tales of the Abyss, but crucially loved every minute of it.) Quite the opposite - to me the notion of shorter, fast paced games is linked to the "casual gamer," an individual that invariably selects Easy mode and plays for an hour each day. Hence, recent games are now accomodating this style of "on the go" play, games are getting easier and shorter - the only thing that seems to improve is the graphics. This, in my opinion is moving the industry (namely certain big name RPG's) in the wrong way - what with the bigger focus on multiplayer, single player gets neglected (hence worse story, character development, etc.)

Moving on slightly, we probably need a new topic for this but I'll go ahead anyway, I assume people have heard SE's latest "plan" for FFXIII:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/final-fantasy-xii...nned-254694.php

Am I the only one thinking that SE is (once again) disappearing up its own backside? This screams to me - less originality, less work for SE, less value for money for fans, and of course - lots of spin off games mean EASY money for SE. What are people's thoughts on this news?

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Guest Big Samurai

That feels like a trip to the Androgynous Twilight Zone. No, no, no. If Square Enix wants to jerk off to the same title for a whole decade, they can go ahead and do that, but ... that might be the one that alienates the fans for good, especially if it incorporates more KH2 stuff. (Rumors of Organization XIII resurfacing once abounded.)

Back on topic, the thing about long games starting to fade strikes me as a (minor) concession to the increasing age of the core fan base. In high school, I could handle 120+ hours of a Final Fantasy game. Nowadays? Sorry, but ... no. I have a full-time job and stuff to do around the house. Even without kids, I barely have time to play the short games.

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TerraBreaker, thank you for the link biggrin.gif

With Final Fantasy VII entering its tenth year of exploitation

I'll now always remember that line while playing/watching some prequal/sequal of FFVII XD

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  • 4 weeks later...
the companies that make the games end up selling extra bits of the stories on other devices to earn more money.

Heh, after reading this bit I was surprised no one brought this up, but the cell phone bit wasn't the worst in my opinion... Let us consider final fantasy 11, or as I prefer to call it 'World of Final Fantasy'... Man, as interesting as the idea would be IF we could trust people to play in character in these games, the game it's self screws a atleast three groups over- First, it's online only, so anyone with a connection below broadband is out, second, it's pay to play, and not everyone have the extra cash to pay for things liek this, and third, not everyone has time to play the game enough to be worth paying the monthly fee... Mix that with the large number of 'Leet' idiots on online games... Just seems like a bad idea on Square's part.

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Guest Big Samurai
Mix that with the large number of 'Leet' idiots on online games... Just seems like a bad idea on Square's part.

Fourth, FFXI has, from what I understand, largely been taken over by mainland Chinese players who are only there to farm gold. Dr. Movie can tell you more about that, since he has been deep into the game in the past.

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Guest Evil_Labs
Fourth, FFXI has, from what I understand, largely been taken over by mainland Chinese players who are only there to farm gold. Dr. Movie can tell you more about that, since he has been deep into the game in the past.

Indeed, despite FF XI's initially rather pretty graphics and tolerable, though not great game play, the thing that really kills the game is the fact that any sort of endgame (what happens after you've ground up through the levels and reached the cap) has been totally dominated by people who are Chinese gil farmers who resell their profits for real money and aren't bothered by using both sheer numbers to ensure claims and also the problem of people who developed hacks to teleport-claim any sort of rare mob that would spawn. Put that on top of a game which thinks those awesome mobs should only spawn ever 2 or 3 days... It became unplayable.

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So I think it's safe to say that, atleast with final fantasy genre, things are starting come full circle, back to the days of FFI, with no real story to the characters, they just happen to be there... Realy, ever since ten, the games have been in a downward spiral, focusing mroe on gameplay and graphics, rather than story and characters... I mean when you make a shoot 'em up game based on the series, it's time to take a break or something... Ah well, It had to end somewhere huh? I just hope I never have to use the immortal words of Dr. Bones 'He's dead Jim' in the direction of these games...

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