Final Fantasy Snuff Fics

[Guest Soemele]

Yes. And your point is? The archetype is a kind of symbol; you can describe someone as a hero, and have him play that role in the story. My point being that on some level you always interact with characters as symbols.

Actually, the tricky bit here is that if you go far enough then EVERYTHING is a symbol. It's impossible to contain in your mind the precise composition of real world objects, so rather than that we store them as a series of symbols. You could refer to the number of symbols used to store something as the resolution of your mental image. So while a very minor character might be stored as something as simple as 'TALL + BLACK + MAN', an important character OR a real life person you know well would be stored in your mind with a very large amount of symbols. Any word you would use to describe someone can probably be equated to a symbol you use to describe them in your mind, though there would probably be some that defy the language as well.

That's really tangential though, and bringing it up it forces me to redefine an earlier statement. Rather than saying that I relate to my characters as symbols while you don't, let me instead state, using the above criteria, that some of the symbols I use to define my characters have broader relevance than the purely personal. Not having read any of your work I can't presume, but I will say it is human nature to write, to some extent, in that style; with characters having some symbolic significance beyond purely descriptive.

In fact, I'd say that goes beyond literature. Every time you hear someone talk about their mother, even if just for a moment, the word 'mother' causes your mind to flicker back to your own mother, and everything they say will have a sort of significance related to you even if there no real logical reason for it to do so. Good or bad, I dunno, but to a certain extent its just the way our brains work, and the literary (AND storytelling) traditions have risen up in that context.

[redsliver]

Psychobabble! Its like you want us to not listen to you! Pseudoscience notwithstanding (is that one word?), I fail to see your point's relevance to a snuff or no snuff debate.

In my opinion, character death is a powerful plot device that is immensely capable of being the main plot on its own. That said if the premise of the story is character death and the rest of the facets of good story-telling are ignored or overlooked its just PWP fluff. I also think if a character the author likes dies, the effects seen in the writing amongst the other characters will tend to be realistic than they would be in a "Fuck! I hate Rinoa! Lets have Angelo become rabid and tear out her throat so I can have a good giggle" fic. (Someone should write that.)

I would never pick a character I dislike to be the one snuffed, I'd pick a character that'd have a startling impact on those that survive him/her. Because, that'd be the better story.

[Guest Soemele]

Okay, well, there is some relevant stuff in there, but I will admit I sort of wallotexted there. So, to sum up:

All communication of information and information storage is done with symbols

The vaguer the symbol the broader the significance

I recognize that each symbol representing a character will probably have some non-character-specific significance to the reader, and try to play off that.

The relevance of this to the debate at hand is that, among other things, the death of a character isn't necessarily just about that character to the reader; reading about what happens to a character, up to and including death, will resonate with their life experience.

I dunno. I'll freely admit that some of this is verbal masturbation, but it's for the purpose of exporing the components of what makes a story enjoyable. Even if no one else cares, I'm just thinking out loud.

[Iggy_lovechild]

The reason why it feels sacred (sometimes) is because there's a feeling of stripping away every part of someone and touching their soul. It's like worshipping a character the same way you'd worship a fine meal, savoring every tiny piece.

I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to snuff fics. One one hand I'm like..."hell no." On the other hand I'm fully aware of the violence endging my mind. Erm, i really liked Poppy Z. Brite's "Exquisite Corpse".

I personally would never write a true snuff fic because, like Wotan, I'm a bit too close to the characters. Hmm...I wouldn't go as so far as calling it unhealthy or murderous or whatever to think of such things, just...*shrugs* A different way of expressing one's self. In the end, I gues we should be happy that it's only getting done in writing (we hope ). Personally, I don't wanna see characters of favourite fandoms chopped into little peices or skinned alive for the sake of a thrill or esoteric meaning. I guess I've always been a sucker for happy endings.

Oddly Soe, the quote of yours that I high-lighted made me think of the end of the novel "Drawing Blood" (yet another book by Poppy Z.).

...I feel a little sad now....

[Guest Big Samurai]

*smacks forehead*

Okay, Soemy, I draw the bullshit line at bringing Freud, Jung, and all of that into a discussion of snuff 'fic. Why don't we roll back on over to the actual topic at hand? If you want to spin this off into a continuing discussion, I suggest you make a separate thread in, say, Aimless Babble, as I think it's strayed a little too far from this thread. If you have any questions, PM me; that's why I'm a Mod, after all.

[Guest Soemele]

I actually wasn't intending to bring anyone's theories besides my own into play. If they have been reproduced by others than that's a case of independent discovery. While I agree that it is kind of beside the point of this PARTICULAR thread, I would argue that it was a natural extension of the discussion with WotanAnubis. That said, the discussion with Wotan itself was pretty irrelevant.

I don't know. I'm getting a little annoyed. I dislike being called on bullshit when trying to have an honest discussion about the nature of language and storytelling, especially in response to a blanket troll about authors of an entire genre of erotic fiction. But I suppose that's fine. I'll try to play nice and use fewer words.

[WotanAnubis]

That said, the discussion with Wotan itself was pretty irrelevant.

I dunno. It was pretty relevant to me.

First I didn't get snuff, now I get snuff.

I don't have to like it, mind you, but at least I don't hate it any more. I'd call that progress.

Where it did get irrelevant was where you tried to convince me that my mind doesn't work the way I know it does.

[Guest Soemele]

Well, I did mention almost no one is motivated towards snuff for the same reason I am. So I don't know if 'getting' snuff is really a viable goal, but okay. And, anyway, I was talking about the operation of a healthy human brain, which you claim yours isn't; perhaps I should start believing you and stop generalizing so much.

[Guest Big Samurai]

I don't know. I'm getting a little annoyed. I dislike being called on bullshit when trying to have an honest discussion about the nature of language and storytelling, especially in response to a blanket troll about authors of an entire genre of erotic fiction. But I suppose that's fine. I'll try to play nice and use fewer words.

You're getting a little annoyed? Okay, that's it. This off-topic discussion stops. Now. There'll be no getting the last word in for you, Soemy. This isn't honest discussion; it's oneupsmanship, and there's been enough of it. No more. You want to appeal, you take it up with me in PM. You don't want to do that, you take it up with an Admin. You clutter up this thread again, though, and you'll be PWN't accordingly.

Everybody else, you may resume your discussion of FF snuff and the poll results. If this topic gets sidetracked again, I'm closing it (with apologies to the creator; sorry about this, Meiru).

[Guest Knorg]

I finally voted. Went with 'One of the male characters'. Look at it this way - Cloud looks like a woman*, so if you do him then you keep both gender-sides happy...

Compromise, like.

--

*I swear! Someone's got him on a sig picture talking about slash, I couldn't tell where the slash came into it! Looked like a man and a woman together on the picture! I had to look it up, find out this girl was a dude...

[Guest Evil_Labs]

Man, I have to adjust to having a new computer and the website running as slow as molasses for me and I come back to people going a bit Noid-ey.

Sorry for making you have to deal with it, Big Samurai-dono.

Adam West endorses occasional snuff in the form of the Noid, by the way.

[Guest Big Samurai]

Not a problem, Labs. I occasionally need the target practice.

As for the Noid, do you mean the one from the old Domino's Pizza commercials (and the Yo, Noid! NES game)?

....

Hmm. Cloud getting snuffed. I guess anything is better than being raped by a hot tub full of beefy guys.

[Guest Knorg]

Hmm. Cloud getting snuffed. I guess anything is better than being raped by a hot tub full of beefy guys.

Hell, the hot tub isn't so bad as when he thinks it a Jacuzzi and they say no, they just had beans for tea last night...

What a way to die... ewwww.

[ricobanderas9]

Ewwwww... lol.

I'm happy to be the second Celes proponent!